40 - Spring Break Throwback!

[00:00:12] Hey y'all, we are back but we have a something a little different for you this week. Isn't that right, Elena? It is! We're on vacation. Yeah, or we're planning to go on vacation. All three of us, yeah. So we're gonna do a throwback.

[00:00:24] Yeah, let's do that. So we went back and looked at the stats for our most listened to episodes of 2023. And you'll be glad to know that our most listened to episode was one that you all actually suggested. Thank you so much for that. Yay!

[00:00:40] It's actually my accountant who suggested it. Okay. He's great. So thanks, Jason. We appreciate you. So we are gonna go spend some time with our boys, hang out, eat a lot of good food. We hope you enjoy listening to the Snowden House Murders. Thanks, guys.

[00:01:00] At the intersection of true crime and real estate, you'll find Crime Estate. I'm Heather. And my name is Elena. As real estate agents and true crime junkies, we view crimes through a different lens. So walk through the door of some of the most notorious true crimes with us.

[00:01:15] And discover how sometimes the scene of the crime has its own story to tell. Hey, ladies, we are back with another Crime Estate podcast. And this one is gonna take us to the deep south today. So I want y'all to think cotton plantations, small town gossip and...

[00:01:40] Wait, are you taking us to Kentucky? Elena, no. You know, it's not where we are today. Okay, I'm taking us back home. Well, I could. Maybe I should do a research on a good Kentucky story.

[00:01:53] Yeah. Okay. So if you know of a good Crime Estate in Kentucky, we should cover Crime Estate podcast at gmail.com. Shoot us an email. I want to hear about it because that wouldn't be fun to cover.

[00:02:04] So if we do want in Kentucky, do you think we should like take a field trip? 100%. When is Derby? Derby is always the first Saturday in May. Can we do that? Can we go then?

[00:02:16] That would be on my bucket list for sure. Have you ever been to Derby? I've never been. No. Mal, what about you? No, I've been to the Preakness several times, which is the one in Baltimore. I think they're a few weeks after the Kentucky Derby.

[00:02:31] And so I mean, I'm done their version of not the Enfield, but the sitting in the stands wearing a big hat and a pretty dress. And that was fun. And I can only imagine how much better it is at the Derby.

[00:02:46] Oh yeah. Well, you know, growing up in Kentucky, we threw a huge Derby party every year. And that is one of my favorite parties to throw because not a lot of people in Texas throw it,

[00:02:55] although it usually coincides with Cinco de Mayo, which is a little bit, you know, Margaritas and Derby. Cinco de Derby. That's what we call it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, speaking of the Derby, our story today takes place in Horseshoe Lake, Arkansas. Sounds pretty. Doesn't it? Yeah.

[00:03:12] I mean, it has a pretty name. It is a small vacation town on the far eastern side of Arkansas. So this tiny lake town is right on the western border of Mississippi and not far from the southern border of Tennessee.

[00:03:25] So it's only about like 30 miles southwest of Memphis, if you can picture that on a map. Yeah. So for like people in North Texas, we think of Arkansas and we think of more kind of the mountains. And Arkansas, if you haven't been, is actually beautiful.

[00:03:40] Northwestern Arkansas is gorgeous. Yeah. I mean, that's somewhere that I've only recently started to go into and it is very gorgeous. But this part of Arkansas that you're mentioning, this is basically the exerbs of Memphis. So way... Very, very far east, Arkansas. Okay.

[00:03:57] And you know, when I say small town, we are talking very small, less than 300 people. Can I mean, can y'all imagine that? Like that's the size of a small elementary school. No way. Everyone knows your business. Oh, for sure they do. Yeah.

[00:04:09] And like many small towns, one family owns the majority of the land in the businesses in this town. And it was the Snowden family. So right after World War I, Robert Snowden II, who came from an extremely wealthy family of Memphis,

[00:04:25] married his sweetheart Grace, who had been a nurse during the war and they set out to make their own path in life by purchasing 1,000 acres of land to build a cotton plantation. Now, Robert came from Memphis Royalty. He was born in 19... Nope, 1896.

[00:04:42] And he had a love of aviation. He was actually a pilot in World War I. And it said that he flew around looking for a plot of land until he found this acreage in what would become Horseshoe Lake. Now, Horseshoe Lake is about 2,300 and some acres.

[00:04:58] The lake is located six miles east of the town of Hughes and Crittenden County, Arkansas. And Horseshoe Lake was actually once part of the mighty Mississippi River. When I was researching this, this is not a part of the...

[00:05:09] One, I'm going off script and two, not a part of history that I knew, but apparently there was an earthquake that shifted the Mississippi River. Did y'all know that? Interesting. I knew a little bit about it that whenever they talk about earthquakes in America,

[00:05:24] obviously normally on the West Coast, but I don't know. And then I hear about ones and this one that was sort of in middle America that impacted Mississippi. Yeah. So that's how Horseshoe Lake was formed when this earthquake happened.

[00:05:37] Yeah, I think it kind of became... It was like cut off from the rest of the Mississippi. Exactly. And it's really called a horseshoe because if you look at it, it is curved upside down like a horseshoe. Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating.

[00:05:50] Anyway, Grayson Robert built a modest cabin overlooking the lake. Their original 1919 home, almost ironically known at the time as Horseshoe Plantation, was raised off the ground on brick piers and had a screened-in front porch. It had one bathroom and one fireplace, but after having four children,

[00:06:09] they had outgrown the space and hired prominent Memphis architect Everett R. Wood to expand their existing home in 1949. Good. And expanded, he did the home transformed from a fishing cabin to become a grand 6,000 square foot antebellum style three-story home that they named Snowden House.

[00:06:31] Well, of course, post a link on all of our socials and our website, crimeisday.com and then of course, Instagram and Facebook. But let me start by setting the scene like we always do.

[00:06:41] Railtor.com describes antebellum architecture as a term used to characterize a style of grand residences largely found in the southern United States, especially the deep south, built in the 19th century. As grandiose as these intricately designed homes are, their magnificence has deep and controversial roots in slavery.

[00:07:01] And Latin antebellum actually translates to before war. Did you all know that? I had no idea. No. No, I mean, I guess if I thought about it, I knew what ante meant before. Wow. Okay. There you go. And while this home was built well after the Civil War,

[00:07:16] it did personify the style of antebellum architecture perfectly. It was a grand home. It was both symmetrical and boxy with a prominent center entrance and columns supporting a large front porch on both the first and second story.

[00:07:32] Apparently Grace designed it because she was inspired by a Louisiana antebellum home that she really admired. And of course, the interior was as grand as the exterior with a front foyer featuring a dramatic two-story sweeping staircase, marble floors or nape mirrors, a crystal chandelier and intricate plasterwork.

[00:07:52] The piece de resistance was a Carrera marble fireplace from Snowden's childhood home in Memphis, Ashler Hall. They had a lot of houses with their names on them. Right? Like who names a house? I don't. Have you ever had clients name their house? No, I haven't.

[00:08:12] No, maybe you have to be over a certain square footage to name your house. Is that a rule? I feel like we've had quite a few stories though of homes that were named. Maybe this is a tradition we should bring back.

[00:08:23] Like, I don't care if you have a 1200 square foot condo, you should just name it. Let's do it. Yeah, I like it. I like it. It is the Heather House now. The Heather House. That's what my husband will say. Heather built this house. All right, y'all.

[00:08:39] And seriously, while Ashler Hall is not the subject of our story today, you know, we'll post a pic of it on our socials. It's pretty incredible. Random fact, Robert Snowden once briefly owned the famous Peabody Hotel.

[00:08:53] The Peabody is famous for its ducks that walk each day through the Memphis Hotel lobby. I've been there, y'all. Yeah, I have not. I've always heard of it. Yeah, no. Yeah, I was actually born in Memphis. So, we mentioned that.

[00:09:06] Yeah, I like to keep it all in the cell a little bit. How far away is Memphis from your childhood home in... Ooh, I'm in Texas. It's still like eight. Oh, okay. Because Memphis is far west in Tennessee, right?

[00:09:20] And then you have to go across Tennessee and up. Yeah, I've done that drive many a time from Texas all the way to D.C. And it felt like Tennessee was really far, which made me laugh because that's what people think about Texas when they're driving real far.

[00:09:37] Yeah, they're like, and I'm still in Texas. And that was how I would feel every time we would drive back and forth to D.C. And we're still in Tennessee. All right, y'all.

[00:09:46] So it's here at Snowden House in the early 1950s that we find Robert and Grace Snowden raising their four children. A son also named Robert and three daughters, Sarah, better known as Sally, Edith and Dorothy, who is nicknamed Happy. And life is idyllic on this homestead.

[00:10:05] And for the purposes of this story, the children have a happy childhood and they grow up as kids tend to do. Okay. And then fast forward to 1982 when Robert Snowden II dies, his daughter, Sally, moves back to Horseshoe Lake to take over the family business.

[00:10:22] While she doesn't live in Snowden House, the house that she lives in is nearby. By this time, the family had built about 30 lakefront cabins that they rented out. And Sally's background as a CPA made her the perfect fit to keep the business and the family.

[00:10:39] So Sally was super smart and very fair and she divided all those cabins among the three siblings in their extended families. The original siblings retained group ownership in the rest of the property, which they called, quote, the big partnership or simply the company.

[00:10:55] And like most family businesses, other family members are also involved. So she works closely with her nephew, Lee Baker, who is responsible for collecting rents and maintaining the grounds. And Lee was a man of many talents.

[00:11:09] He also taught English at the local high school and he gained fame as a blues musician. He lived on Horseshoe Lake with his wife and his three sons. And business was good.

[00:11:20] And so Sally began renting Snowden House out to a couple who actually ran it as a restaurant and a bed and breakfast. And it was the place to go for a nice dinner or night out. So it's only 300 people and it sounds like they had quite the nightlife.

[00:11:36] Well, yeah, I think it was very much like a tourist destination place at this point. If you think about it, it's only about 30-some odd miles outside of Memphis.

[00:11:47] So it probably was, you know, one of the closer in areas that you could go to feel like you're kind of in the woods and in a very pretty pristine area with great fishing. So I could see that.

[00:12:01] I mean, if we had a fishing cabin, like in a great restaurant 30 miles from here, I would do that once a quarter or something. That would be fun.

[00:12:09] Yeah. When I was looking up at some of the advertising about the house and the bed and breakfast, they were talking about some of the events that they would do there. And they would actually have a shuttle service from downtown Memphis for events. Oh, that's fun.

[00:12:27] All right. Well, in August of 1996, Lee's family home was broken into while they were away. And because of his fame in the music industry, he had quite a bit of memorabilia, including a priceless guitar once owned by Fury Lewis, an influential early blues musician.

[00:12:43] Now, side note, I looked him up and he was incredible. We've actually linked a video of him playing in our show notes. You all have to go check it out. But I digress as I tend to do back to the burglary.

[00:12:55] Lee was also known to have quite a bit of cash in the house. And the police believe that the intruders set fire to the house in order to cover up the evidence of their burglary.

[00:13:06] Only a month later, another burglary and fire set the scene for one of the most bizarre crime stories that I've ever heard. And y'all, if I say that, it's pretty bizarre because I mean, I'm pretty well versed in true crime at this point.

[00:13:21] So because of the fire, Lee and his family actually moved into the cabin on the lake only about a hundred yards from Sally's cabin.

[00:13:29] And as the story goes, two guys in town are just, you know, heading about their normal daily business when they come across a wrecked red Toyota Camry on the side of the road. It's turned on its side and it's actually still running.

[00:13:42] And so of course they go and like check on the car and the windshield on the driver's side is cracked in a way that makes it apparent that somebody hit their head on the windshield. But the car is empty and there isn't anyone inside.

[00:13:54] It's quickly figured out that the car belongs to Sally Snowden. She's the only one that owns a red Toyota Camry in town and police head to her home to check on her.

[00:14:04] When they arrive, they find Lee's white pickup truck backed up to the back door of the house and smelling gasoline, the police go inside and find 75 year old Sally and 52 year old Lee shot dead and the room in flames.

[00:14:19] To detectives, it appeared that another fire had been set to cover up another crime. A town's person comes forward saying that he saw two young black men driving Sally's car earlier in the day.

[00:14:30] And with that information, the detectives start talking to anyone in town with a criminal history that meets that description. But all of their leads are dead ends. As the investigation continues, detectives ask Lee's son if there is anyone that he thinks could have committed the crime.

[00:14:49] He tells them about a recent incident where a friend of his stole some video games from their house. His dad had gone to confront the friend and found the stolen video games at his house during that confrontation. The friend's name is Travis Lewis.

[00:15:03] Travis is only 15 years old and is a student of Lee's. Now remember, Lee taught English at the local high school in addition to working for the family business and Travis's grandparents also happened to rent a home from Sally. Like many small towns, these people are very interconnected.

[00:15:23] And detectives find out that Travis was not in school on the day of the crime. So police bring Travis in for questioning and ask him to take a polygraph test which he fails.

[00:15:35] And then Travis tells the police that his mom did not know he had been suspended from school and so he left for school that morning as normal and headed to Lee Baker's house with the intention of breaking in.

[00:15:45] Side note, they obviously did not have power school alerts on their cell phone. I took my son to the dentist the other day. I got an alert that he missed first period. My husband actually texted me. He's like, Hey buddy, you okay? You showed absent in first period.

[00:16:00] I was like, No, no, remember he had a dentist appointment. Okay, that would be so my family. Yeah. This is pre cell phone and apps.

[00:16:07] So Travis skipped school that morning and along the way he runs into his friend Andre and they decide to like hang out together for the day. And Travis thinks they should break into Lee's house and then Andre should break into Sally's house like at the same time.

[00:16:23] But right next to each other. Let's just go do this on her. Why not? Why not? Nothing ever good comes from skipping. No, no, stay in school.

[00:16:32] Anyway, however Andre shows up at Lee's house and Sally's car after this supposed break in and tells him that he had killed Sally and Lee and he needed help getting rid of the bodies. Unable to move them, they tried to burn the house down instead.

[00:16:49] And after starting the fire, the two get in Sally's car and speed away until Andre crashes the car and they both flee. However, Andre had an alibi for the time of crime and only Travis's hair and fingerprints were found in Sally's car.

[00:17:07] On April 7th, 1998, Travis Lewis pleaded guilty to the crime. He was 16 at the time but was tried as an adult and received a 28 and a half year jail sentence. The McKay family actually asked that the death penalty be taken off the table for Travis.

[00:17:26] And while the story is tragic for both families, it also led to operational issues for the Snowden family business. The two people who had been running the day-to-day operations were both dead.

[00:17:36] So from 1996 until 2004, Sally's sister Edith, more often referred to as Edie because we know very few people in the South actually go by their given names, kept the business running.

[00:17:49] And after Edie passed away in 2006, Sally's daughter, Martha McKay, decides to come back to Horseshoe Lake from the West Coast and turn her talent for renovating old homes to Snowden House. In an article in About You magazine, Martha is quoted as saying,

[00:18:07] By that time the house was pretty run down, but over my adult life I discovered historic preservation is something I'd like to do. I had renovated a beautiful home in Virginia City, Nevada and two or three houses in Seattle.

[00:18:20] So I sold the house in Virginia City and bought the Snowden House. It was the only way that I could see doing the kind of work that I wanted to do. I mean, look, as lovers of old houses, we appreciate that sentiment so much.

[00:18:32] I mean, somebody that wants to take on the project of renovating an old house really has to have the heart and the desire to do that. And the pocketbook. And the pocketbook. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And y'all, she did an incredible job.

[00:18:47] The bathrooms were updated with Calcutta Gold marble countertops and heated floors. The kitchen was brought back to life from its restaurant service days with walls removed to expose the old bear pine from the original house. That would be so cool.

[00:19:00] And she was an early proponent of green energy. One of the most interesting renovations she did that I read about was she actually replaced a gas heated basement furnace and old window air conditioning units with a geothermal system that drew water from the lake for cooling and heating.

[00:19:17] Wow. I love that. That's pretty. I mean, that's pretty ahead of your time. What are we saying? Like 2006? And yeah, that's pretty hardcore. I thought that was really interesting. I also read that in the bathroom she had the heated tiles underneath the floors that you're walking around.

[00:19:34] That's a fancy renovation. Yeah, I feel like those are the types of things that are awesome, but not everyone needs to have more of a want not a need. Right. Absolutely. Yeah, it's definitely a luxury.

[00:19:49] Okay, but let's pause for a second and I just want to go back and refresh on the timeline of the story because we did start, you know, back post World War One. Um, in 1996, Martha's mom and cousin are killed by Travis Lewis.

[00:20:03] Travis goes to prison in 1998 and is expected to serve 28 years. By 2006, Martha McKay is back in Horseshoe Bay living and working at Snowden House. Snowden House. Is that what I said? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:21] Martha was known to have a big heart and she had always felt bad about how young Travis was when the crime occurred. Remember, he was just 15. And in addition to that, Martha was really close with Travis's mom Gladys.

[00:20:33] She actually worked at the Snowden House as a housekeeper for many years. Again, small town, right? Like everybody knows everybody.

[00:20:42] Gladys, Travis's mom actually worked for Martha's during that time when she was overseeing that renovation of Snowden House, you know, bringing it up to the 20th century with amenities, but also respecting the historical home's path.

[00:20:56] Well, posted online, but there are videos during the 2010s tour of the home, which was really cool. So thanks, Mel, for digging up those videos. That was really neat.

[00:21:05] Yeah, there's actually a lot of marketing materials that she performed as she was advertising the home and doing the renovation. And yeah, all the Memphis magazines and kind of socialite magazines were highlighting the home. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:23] But you know, sort of going back to like the time of the crime, given how close she was with Gladys and all of the background with the family, you know, Martha felt compelled to write to Travis in person. And the two actually became pen pals.

[00:21:38] Now, this is not going to get creepy like you might think. Cause I always think pen pals are creepy. Oh, um, I don't think pen pals are creepy. Okay. I don't think pen pals are creepy.

[00:21:46] But when you say it that way about a 70 year old woman and a young boy. Don't you? I just feel like so many times when people are prison, they're like, oh, I married this woman that started writing to me. Oh, well, that's true.

[00:21:57] That's where I was like, it's not going there. Okay. My head did not go there. But now, now it would have. We're giving Martha more credit than that.

[00:22:04] So Martha believed though that Travis deserved a second chance and she was very vocal and supporting his efforts to be paroled. She actually even attended the parole hearings in support of him and, you know, really believes strongly in his redemption.

[00:22:19] So ultimately, Travis was paroled in 2018 after serving only 20 years of his sentence. And y'all, Martha gives him a job at Snowden house. That's wild. Talk about a heart of gold. I love this woman.

[00:22:33] So all of this seems to work well for a few years, but at some point in early 2020 things change. Gladys actually warned Martha to stay away from Travis because he was going back to his quote old ways.

[00:22:45] But Martha ever Travis's supporter really needed to see that for herself. In February of 2020, Martha sold an expensive chandelier.

[00:22:57] In February of 2020, Martha sold an expensive chandelier, returning to the house with $14,000 in cash that she was going to hold and she'll speak a deposit in the bank the next day.

[00:23:09] When the money went missing and Travis was the only one besides herself that knew it was in the house, Martha had finally had enough. She fired Travis and banned him from returning to Snowden house.

[00:23:24] A month later, on March 25th, 2020, police receive a report of an alarm going off at Snowden house. When they entered the house, they found Martha dead at the top of the steps.

[00:23:36] As they continued to search the house, they saw the suspect jump out of a window, get into a car and drive it across a yard until he got stuck in the mud.

[00:23:45] The person then proceeded to get out of the vehicle and run into Horseshoe Lake where he went underwater and did not reappear. So using specialized sonar equipment, search and rescue were able to locate and recover the body of Travis Lewis.

[00:24:00] His autopsy revealed that he had cocaine, meth, and marijuana in his system at the time of his death. Back at the house, police found that Martha had been stabbed and wrapped in a blanket and next to her body was a bag containing valuables and a bloody kitchen knife.

[00:24:18] According to an article in About You magazine, investigators surmised Lewis had intended to steal the items, but no one could say if she caught him in the act and then he killed her.

[00:24:28] Or if he went there to kill her and figured he might as well commit the theft while he was there.

[00:24:33] He may have put a blanket over her to fuel a fire he planned to ignite just as he had done with Sally McKay and Lee Baker, destroying any evidence that he might have left behind.

[00:24:44] The man who had killed Martha McKay's mother and cousin 20-some years earlier, the man whom she thought deserved a second chance, had killed her as well. It's really sad.

[00:24:57] I am so heartbroken for her because I feel like if the world is a just and good place, people that have big hearts and do the right thing should be rewarded in the end.

[00:25:11] She obviously had a heart of gold and really, regardless of what you think about the crime, he was 15 at the time. And that is extenuating circumstances that I can see where maybe he deserves a second chance.

[00:25:28] And so for it to end up that way was really sad for sure. Now, absolutely. I mean, I think we all love a redemption story.

[00:25:36] We all love somebody who's turned their life around and the fact that she believed so powerfully in this and wanting to help him and help his family. It's really devastating to think about how this all went full circle.

[00:25:54] And then for him to kill her in the same house property that her mother and cousin died at 24 years apart. I mean, this feels like a movie. Yeah. Super sad. Okay. Well, not like like being able to something a little more up here.

[00:26:19] And you know, it's kind of funny like are not funny crazy that we really hadn't heard about this story before. I don't know. I mean, this seems like something that would have been all over the news.

[00:26:31] But then I was sitting here thinking about the dates while we were talking about this March 2020. Yeah, COVID. I think this happened right in the very beginning stages of COVID that took across all the news was on that.

[00:26:47] And so I'm thinking this is one of those stories that I'm sure it was big in Memphis at the time, but it slipped through the cracks of national attention. I mean, doesn't this seem like a made for TV movie?

[00:26:58] I mean, it's that it would have occurred in this. And if you see the pictures, the home is beautiful and majestic and has these Magnolia trees and Cypress trees.

[00:27:07] It was like it seems like that because it occurred at the very first month of COVID that that's why we may not know about it. I think you're absolutely right.

[00:27:15] I mean, I think it's definitely a story that would have made national headlines if the national headlines weren't permeated with something else. So we have to give a shout out to my accountant because he actually recommended this story.

[00:27:25] So thank you, Jason, because I had never heard of it. And when I was telling him about the podcast, he was like, oh, you guys have to do this story. See for Memphis, you know, I don't know. I'll have to ask him.

[00:27:35] I don't know if he grew up in the area or what, but for a recent, very recent crime, you know, three years ago, that for us not to have heard about it when it was this like just quintessential story, beautiful home.

[00:27:50] I mean, there's so many layers to this. I'm shocked that we didn't hear about it, but that is exactly what we're trying to accomplish. Shining a light on interesting homes and unique stories from the victim's point of view. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:28:08] So a little follow up on this story in August of 2020, the home at 1527 Bream Road was actually purchased for $750,000. A far cry below its previous estimates where it was initially on the market.

[00:28:26] So before she was murdered there, after she had done the renovations, you know, sort of the, I think it was like 2012-ish, there were the market took a huge hit and so she was like, well, maybe this isn't the time to do that.

[00:28:39] So she had put it on the market at one point and then just decided not to sell it. And it was on the market for a much higher price at that time.

[00:28:47] It's crazy how you can actually, I guess because it's so recent, there are still so many live websites up and running about this house. There's ones that advertise it as a home for weddings, like some beautiful descriptions of the home.

[00:29:02] There are websites when it was on the market and basically saying we could sell it as is. You can continue to use it as a wedding chapel or a bread and breakfast. We have a host of events that you can occur.

[00:29:16] I mean, it is very much, it was like almost frozen in time from a website that it hasn't been knocked off any of these websites, southernbride.com, etc. You can still see all this out there. Yeah. And their Instagram's still up.

[00:29:31] There's fabulous pictures on, I think it's the Snowden House. We'll obviously link it in our show notes, but you can, and a lot of the pictures are more family related. You can see them enjoying a picnic out by the lake.

[00:29:45] It really was a home that was very much loved by this family. All right. So of course I have to ask the question, would you live there? Would you list it? If you're pulling out your pocketbook, what would you do?

[00:29:59] But before you answer, I have to tell you that the home was actually sold very recently and then demolished. Well, we already said it sold in August of 2020, but they have since demolished the house. A Google map search shows that the lot is still vacant.

[00:30:16] But a family member I heard in an interview said that the house was demolished to make way for another building. So given that, I want to know would you have lived there in the antebellum style original home? Or would you buy the lot now that it's been demolished?

[00:30:34] Hmm. I think I would not have lived there as the home was when the murders occurred because it just sounds just sad, just like a lot of sadness. Depending on what goes on the property though, I might consider now. Yeah, I mean it does overlook a lake. Yeah.

[00:30:54] Yeah, if you look at a map of the horseshoe lake, it's actually at the very apex, like the very top in the middle of it as it kind of arches down. It's kind of seemed to be the premier spot of the lake.

[00:31:10] I'm actually kind of shocked that they tore it down because I saw, I mean the pictures are everything still up. It's like frozen in time. I don't know if she was an early, you know, for a 75 year old woman.

[00:31:21] I don't know if she was an early adoptee of Facebook or of Instagram, but all those post are still up right now. So it's frozen in time. And so the house looked beautiful.

[00:31:33] So I'm actually surprised, but at the same time it was one of those homes that's so big. It was such a unique property. I can also imagine it might be difficult to sell as is.

[00:31:46] It's like almost too big for a vacation home, which you know being 30 minutes from a major city area is probably the demographic that most people are looking at. But not far enough for it to be a big resort.

[00:32:04] It's kind of in a weird niche about who would be the clientele. But I always love a lake house. I don't know if I would make it my full-time residence. Yeah, I mean I think I would definitely list it either way for the question there.

[00:32:23] And I think I probably would have lived there either way. I'm with UML like it's, I wouldn't live 30 minutes out of town. None of us live 30 minutes out of town. We make a lot of concessions to live so close in.

[00:32:35] But as a lake house that could be really cool. But I think it's also like this family home that you all travel back to. To me, that's what it's reminiscent of. It is the landing place. It is my grandparents' farm.

[00:32:48] It is the place all the scattered cousins and aunts and uncles come back to for Christmas. But I don't know how you recreate that when you sell it with a new family. I think you're right. I think that's really hard.

[00:33:00] I loved the story that Martha would talk about. So that while she had lived briefly in the home as a child, she grew up on the West Coast.

[00:33:08] But every summer, she and all of her extended cousins would basically come and live for the summer at that house with the grandparents. And I think that you don't see a lot of that today.

[00:33:21] Even for people who maybe have kind of like a lake house or a farmhouse. I mean, nowadays our kids are mine included. Oftentimes very over scheduled. Families are over scheduled in the summertime.

[00:33:35] Like it's hard enough to get a week long vacation to meet up versus sort of like that picture as go. They're going to spend six weeks all together at the lake.

[00:33:44] I remember when my son was young, I was like the next person that says they are having a lazy summer to me is dead. I had like this spreadsheet of all of the camps and what time you could pick up and drop off.

[00:33:54] And I think we've talked about this on a previous episode, you know, the summers with working parents are so challenging. But I do sort of like desire that time for me.

[00:34:04] That was almost what that March 25th, 2020, like the COVID was that as much as it was horrible to be in our homes, it was nice to just have that work together. We're here. We don't have to go 24 seven, which was nice. I agree. Yeah.

[00:34:20] I mean, I think in 50 years we're going to be old and reminiscing back on the on those days. And nobody ever wants to go back to the height of COVID. But there was definitely something about lazy days of puzzles and hanging out as a family.

[00:34:38] Well, and for us, our kids were at the perfect age. You know, we didn't have toddlers running around. Right. You know, they could self. Yeah.

[00:34:46] And obtain themselves a little bit so that we could work and it was just nice to spend that time that we felt like time was slipping away from us. It was nice to spend time with them. I agree. Well, okay.

[00:34:56] So do we know what you have coming up for next week? Yes, I do. Yeah. I'm doing something in Massachusetts. Oh, man. I think I'm going to unlock a new fear of fear of yours or you think it's going to unlock a fear of ours. Y'all's. Oh, yeah.

[00:35:13] I say y'all's. Y'all's is a word, right? Sure. I'm the plural of y'all. Yeah. I'm excited. Okay. Well, I hope y'all tune in next week.

[00:35:22] And of course, if you are loving this podcast, you know, we would love for you to give us a review on Apple podcast or Spotify. And if you have a great crime estate story, let us know. We'll talk to y'all next week. Thank you. Bye.

[00:35:39] Hey, y'all, thanks for listening and being a part of our crime estate family. If you're curious about today's featured crime estate, you can find additional photos and details from today's episode. Followed online at crimestate.com. We're on Facebook and Instagram by following at Crime Estate Podcast.

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