54 - Heaven's Gate

[00:00:05] At the intersection of True Crime and Real Estate, you'll find Crime Estate.

[00:00:09] I'm Heather, and my name is Elena, as real estate agents and True Crime junkies weave you crimes through a different lens.

[00:00:16] So walk through the door of some of the most notorious True Crimes with us.

[00:00:19] And discover how sometimes the scene of the crime has its own story to tell.

[00:00:26] Hey y'all, welcome back to another episode of Crime Estate.

[00:00:29] I'm so excited to tell you that my dear friend and fellow realtor Elena is bringing you today's story.

[00:00:36] I'm Heather, and I'm joined here as always by Elena.

[00:00:39] Of course, in our producer, friend and commentator, Mel, hey, Elena, hey ladies.

[00:00:44] Hey, how's it going?

[00:00:45] I'm excited about this one. Let's go.

[00:00:48] Oh, right. Just like do it. Just like we're going to have fun.

[00:00:49] Yeah, it's gonna be good.

[00:00:50] Well, I've been promising y'all. I would do one with no murder.

[00:00:53] So there's no... There's death but no murder.

[00:00:56] Okay, can I tell you the number of friends that I know that are really creeped out about the podcast that we do?

[00:01:03] Really?

[00:01:03] Way higher than I would have expected.

[00:01:05] Really?

[00:01:06] I was actually talking to a girlfriend today and she's like, I was like, I've got to go. We're recording.

[00:01:10] She's like, well, is this one really scary? Can I listen to it?

[00:01:14] I was like, but not a couple of merch scares. She's like, oh no, I can't be in my house alone.

[00:01:19] Do I have to write this into your mouth?

[00:01:20] Oh, I could. I kind of like that.

[00:01:21] Yeah, I had no idea.

[00:01:23] So okay, so I'm glad you have one.

[00:01:24] No murder.

[00:01:26] So this one is a handy murder and I had a few ideas but I think it was really painting out on what I wanted to do that did not involve murder.

[00:01:32] And I remembered the story from the 90s. I thought it'd be a good one to talk about.

[00:01:36] We talked about cults on previous episodes, most notably we talked about the maintenance and family and that cult.

[00:01:43] I think maybe you have a fascination with cults that we've not dug deep enough into you.

[00:01:48] What do you think that is?

[00:01:49] I don't know what I don't know why it is.

[00:01:51] I haven't given up.

[00:01:52] Yeah, but I'm not giving me out.

[00:01:53] I don't know.

[00:01:54] But you do seem to really like cults.

[00:01:56] It's interesting.

[00:01:57] I was wondering what kind of person would be prey to someone who has the various ideas.

[00:02:05] I think it's a psychology.

[00:02:06] I think you probably have the interest in the psychology of what would cause someone to join this.

[00:02:14] I don't know.

[00:02:15] Maybe that's where some of your interests come from.

[00:02:17] Totally.

[00:02:17] Yeah, I like that.

[00:02:18] So today we're going to be talking about the heavens gate cult and what pumped at 39 people to commit mass suicide in a home in Rancho, St. of A, California.

[00:02:29] Okay, so not murder.

[00:02:30] Mass suicide.

[00:02:32] Could you help raise your a-lana?

[00:02:34] You know, we'll talk to your grandpa, Casso.

[00:02:38] I mean, this is isn't this the largest U.S. based, like kind of mass suicide.

[00:02:45] Yep, sure is.

[00:02:46] Thank you, Melia.

[00:02:47] Definitely is.

[00:02:47] Oh, really?

[00:02:48] It's like bigger than like branch to video.

[00:02:50] Well, that wasn't a mass suicide.

[00:02:51] Oh, that's right.

[00:02:53] Okay.

[00:02:53] I mean, that was a cult.

[00:02:54] That's different.

[00:02:55] Yeah.

[00:02:55] But a different type.

[00:02:58] So heaven's gate was formed in 1972 by Marshall Appalite and Bonnie Nettles.

[00:03:04] And while it began as a movement aligning with new age, as many religious movements did at the time, it took a lot of cues from Christianity.

[00:03:11] And that it preached about the devil and the group's ability to save its followers from spending eternity in hell.

[00:03:17] Marshall Appalite was born in 1931, Texas, was the son of a Presbyterian minister, but due to his struggles with the sexuality and reported that he and his father had a difficult relationship.

[00:03:27] And after earning his bachelor's degree in 1952, he enrolled in seminary, studying theology in hopes of becoming a minister.

[00:03:35] Marshall married Anne Pierce in 1952 and proceeded to have two children.

[00:03:39] Mark and Lane, but shortly after beginning a family, Marshall decided to leave seminary to pursue a career in music, even securing a job as a musical director for a church in North Carolina.

[00:03:51] However, in 1954, Marshall was drafted into the U.S. Army where he serves in Austria and New Mexico as a member of the Army's Signal Corps.

[00:03:59] So in 1956, Marshall left the service enrolled in the University of Colorado and earned a masters in music.

[00:04:06] Appalite taught music at the University level after a student trying to become an actor in New York did not pay an out.

[00:04:12] And while teaching at the University of Alabama, he was fired after attempting to pursue a relationship with a male student.

[00:04:19] Okay, wait, so this guy is like all over the place.

[00:04:21] He's kind of all over the place.

[00:04:23] When his wife, one of the incident, she divorced him in 1965 and after this he moved back to Texas and began a new teaching job.

[00:04:32] But in 1970, he was again fired from the University of St. Thomas in Houston because he was having a relationship with a male student.

[00:04:40] The death of his father a year later, is said to have plenty of Appalite into a deep depression.

[00:04:44] So it sounds like he just had like a bunch of unresolved issues with his dad probably because of his sexuality that he was coming to terms with and it was just it was really bad for him.

[00:04:53] And then he just wasn't if his dad was a minister like it just wasn't not that time at that time.

[00:04:57] So he probably was going from one thing to the other trying to find himself which is really unfortunate.

[00:05:04] For sure.

[00:05:04] I mean, it's probably you know, in today in society, he would probably get the help you need it and be more recognized.

[00:05:13] But at that time period, he was really probably struggling.

[00:05:18] Right.

[00:05:19] So when 1972, the reports differ exactly on how the pair encountered each other.

[00:05:25] Marshall Appalite met Bonnie Lee-Nettles at a Houston area hospital.

[00:05:30] The two bonded over their mutual belief in mysticism and soon determined that they were each destined to be the witnesses of the end of times as mentioned in the Bible's book of Revelation.

[00:05:39] Bonnie Lee-Nettles born in Houston in 1927 was a registered nurse.

[00:05:43] She was married in 1949 to Joseph Seagull Nettles and had four children.

[00:05:48] And by all accounts that I found online, the family of six lived an unassuming life together until 1972 when she started attempting to contact dead spirits through seances.

[00:06:00] And so I do not want to like give Appalite any like any room in this story because he is definitely involved.

[00:06:11] But I also think that it is easy to put all the blame on him, but he obviously met Nettles at a very vulnerable time in his life.

[00:06:23] And I did read, I don't know if it's the true story that she may have been a nurse.

[00:06:28] At the facility he went to, after this last after being fired from the University of St. Thomas in Houston, for maybe his sexual orientation.

[00:06:38] And he was having definitely some mental health crises at the time period, thinking he was here hearing things.

[00:06:49] And she with her interest in the occult and her beliefs there, she definitely was able to massage kind of some of his internal demons in kind of direct them in a way that went with her personal kind of belief.

[00:07:04] Yeah, yeah, I think it's very insightful.

[00:07:07] So Nettles began to study the occult in astrology. She also began to believe that in 19th century, month, named brother Francis spoke to her, giving her instructions.

[00:07:15] And around the same time she went to see a fortune teller who told her that she would be meeting a tall man with light hair and light complexion.

[00:07:23] So basically her husband could tell this was not like the life for him and he was out right.

[00:07:29] Yeah, as what I say, it's like, by the way, there's a monk, committee talking to me. Yes.

[00:07:37] And I'm going to study the occult in the system. Yeah, that's fair.

[00:07:41] Okay, I read this one quote based upon what Nettles thinks, at least about Apple White,

[00:07:48] she deduces that they are faded to work together on some grand project and their destined to be spiritual partners.

[00:07:55] Mm-hmm. Yep.

[00:07:57] And because of two felt an instant connection, Marshall was convinced that they had met in a past life while Nettles believed that extra terrestrials brought them together as hey do.

[00:08:06] Well, that makes for a better dinner party story than like, hey, we met at college.

[00:08:10] So I did.

[00:08:11] That's how I'm hearing.

[00:08:12] How did y'all meet?

[00:08:13] Hey, Mel, how did you enjoy some meat?

[00:08:15] He was, well, it was at work, but he was my client.

[00:08:18] I was a consultant and he worked for my company.

[00:08:22] I was consulting with him.

[00:08:23] I didn't know that.

[00:08:25] That's very nice.

[00:08:25] That's nice.

[00:08:26] He was asked you out, or did you ask him out?

[00:08:29] Oh, he danced around each other for about nine months.

[00:08:34] We, you know, we were young, twenty-somethings and we lived in a relatively close.

[00:08:39] So we would see each other at the same bars, dollars, and everyone at work would joke that we were together because we'd be like, oh yeah, you know, it was fun at such and such a bar

[00:08:50] and then we even ran it into each other down in looking back.

[00:08:54] Like, well, like, Nelson's picnic festival.

[00:08:57] We would run into each other quite a lot and then look in back.

[00:09:00] We ran into each other.

[00:09:03] And yeah, eventually, I don't know who asked who out, but we hooked up.

[00:09:10] Interesting.

[00:09:11] Okay.

[00:09:11] All right.

[00:09:12] The rest they say is his.

[00:09:13] Yeah.

[00:09:13] After they hooked up.

[00:09:15] Then we know how you and Erin met?

[00:09:17] You do.

[00:09:17] I'll refresh memory when we're not recording.

[00:09:20] Oh, okay.

[00:09:20] Yes, right.

[00:09:23] Nothing elicit.

[00:09:27] So soon, Nettles and Apple White began a platonic relationship and they opened a bookstore and moved in together.

[00:09:33] But they shut the doors of the bookstore, the Christian Arts Center, surely offered to travel the country to promote their beliefs.

[00:09:39] They began marketing, giving away flyers and having presentations like real estate agents.

[00:09:44] Yeah.

[00:09:45] I love that.

[00:09:46] Their materials espouse and mixture of conspiracy theories, science fiction and UFOs.

[00:09:52] Their posters are said to have said quote,

[00:09:54] To individuals say they were sent from the level above humanists and will return to that level in the spaceship within the next few months.

[00:10:00] The two gained national attention when in 1975, they held a pretty successful seminar in Oregon.

[00:10:06] And at that time, their religion was then called the Human Individual Metamorphosis or total overcomers anonymous.

[00:10:11] They were promising that a spaceship would come to Earth to save them and their followers from damnation.

[00:10:16] Total overcomers anonymous.

[00:10:18] Yeah.

[00:10:18] I love that.

[00:10:21] All right, sorry.

[00:10:24] Before potential followers were able to officially join the cult, they would have to remove all of these things.

[00:10:29] You just called it a cult.

[00:10:30] Is it a religion or a cult at this point?

[00:10:32] Okay. So there's different schools of theory apparently.

[00:10:35] I would've called it before I started writing this.

[00:10:38] I would've called it a cult 100%.

[00:10:39] There are some people who call a religion though, and there are still some followers of this heavens gate.

[00:10:45] Like to this day to this day.

[00:10:47] And I'm not sure why they're making the differentiation between cult and religion other than it does have some Christian teachings in it.

[00:10:56] And I'm wondering if that's maybe a reason why some people are adamant on calling it a religion.

[00:11:01] Then a cult.

[00:11:02] I don't know if Mel has anything else to say.

[00:11:04] I have not sure the distinction that you noticed that as well.

[00:11:07] Yeah.

[00:11:08] I mean, they're definitely just believers of it today and there is no functioning act of websites.

[00:11:15] Okay. Good to know. Please continue.

[00:11:17] Okay. So before potential followers were able to join the cult slash religion, they would have to get rid of all their possessions.

[00:11:26] They would have to say they're not going to engage in sex or drugs, and they would have to completely leave their families behind.

[00:11:31] Once they did this, they would be elevated to a level above human or as they called it, the evolutionary level above human.

[00:11:39] And you all despite this people still joined.

[00:11:42] A couple dozen people were ready to leave sex and their families to follow Marshall and Bonnie, or as they had their followers called them, do and T respectively.

[00:11:52] You ready, son?

[00:11:53] Nope.

[00:11:54] They had it.

[00:11:55] This was an interesting cult.

[00:11:58] I want to say cult. Like let's just say nowadays it's a cult.

[00:12:02] I'm sure when you're in the middle of it, you don't think it's a cult but I bet their families that they all dissonance themselves thought it was a cult.

[00:12:11] That in some of these stories I've heard like, you know, like they definitely feel like, oh, there's a guy who wanted to have lots of sex with a lot of civil rights.

[00:12:20] Like, you know, or like that they were trying to be really nefarious and still people's money reading this it felt like that,

[00:12:33] Apple White and Nettles really believed it.

[00:12:36] Like I'm not saying that it was at all correct or good but I definitely got the feeling that in this cult it was maybe mental illness,

[00:12:49] causing versus in some of these horrible columns you hear about where it feels like, okay, maybe the followers believe but the leaders are just a praying on people.

[00:13:01] Yes.

[00:13:01] Yeah. I don't know. Did you feel that way?

[00:13:03] I didn't.

[00:13:03] Nettles you mentioned, I get that delineation between the two for sure.

[00:13:08] So some of the group including Apple White even castrated themselves, taking the practice of no sex to a crazier level.

[00:13:14] According to former member Michael Conner's, they were all to be alike and do the same thing saying quote, everything was designed to be an exact duplicate.

[00:13:23] You are not to come up with, well, I'm going to make the pancakes this big.

[00:13:26] There is a mixture of size and how long you cooked it on one side. How much the burner is on? How many a person got? How the syrup was poured on it, everything.

[00:13:35] That's really bizarre but do you think the no sex thing played into his homosexuality?

[00:13:42] Oh, you know, because of this religion, cult, whatever we're going to call it. I mean, we're in the 70s. All of this is very different. Do you think just the no sex thing made that easy for him?

[00:14:00] I think that's really smart of you to think of that. I had not bought it that but that is a way to reconcile his feelings versus how he grew up with his presbyterian minister father.

[00:14:11] And one of the things I read about was they promoted kind of a an adrogginess.

[00:14:18] Like style, we are haircuts, we're kind of a drauginess. They thought that when they would go with the UFOs and the aliens it was sort of an asexual society.

[00:14:31] Where there wasn't the traditional gender norms.

[00:14:35] So I don't know it feels all intertwined to me.

[00:14:40] Okay, so at this point, like was this a big group, a small group, like so before long the group attracted over 200 members.

[00:14:49] The mixture of asceticism, mysticism, science fiction and Christianity.

[00:14:54] And I don't know about y'all but I didn't know what asceticism was. So I had to look it up in according to Webster.

[00:15:00] Asceticism, if I'm saying that correctly, is a practice of strict self denial as a measure of personal and especially spiritual discipline.

[00:15:07] The condition practice or mode of life of an eshetic is rigorous absorption from self indulgence.

[00:15:14] That's a mouthful rigorous abstention from self indulgence.

[00:15:18] So almost like a monk, right?

[00:15:19] Well, with that be similar to like you don't want to participate in a like joy.

[00:15:28] Like things that bring you happiness?

[00:15:30] I mean, to some extent, you know, things like clothing, maybe things of the material world.

[00:15:41] I mean, I guess they always need money to survive or to eat but not necessary.

[00:15:48] They weren't looking for flagrant, you know, vast airplanes and boats and cars.

[00:15:55] They were more just looking for practicality.

[00:15:58] Right. Yeah, totally.

[00:15:59] I think that's something that like the three of us would struggle with.

[00:16:02] And we got to be terrible.

[00:16:04] I'm not like super self indulgent, but just a little bit.

[00:16:07] Here you are.

[00:16:07] I mean, I think we all keep up.

[00:16:10] So I feel like some of us more than others keep up with during at Mal and now I'm doing it.

[00:16:15] I keep up with, you know, what are society?

[00:16:17] Things we should keep up with.

[00:16:18] Like our hair and our nails and that kind of say it would be difficult.

[00:16:22] And the the Kila and vodka that we're going to be right.

[00:16:26] Yeah, it would be difficult.

[00:16:27] Yeah, totally.

[00:16:28] Especially here.

[00:16:29] Be like a like a dead of sin.

[00:16:32] How's this got a dead?

[00:16:33] I'm not talking about all the alcohol.

[00:16:37] And let's just see because when you come over, I give you alcohol.

[00:16:40] It's not like they just like flows from the floor.

[00:16:44] Someone provided for us.

[00:16:46] I saw all some photos that they would be advertising and their religion on like San

[00:16:53] Monica pier.

[00:16:55] Like I mean, they were definitely looking for followers, but you're right.

[00:16:59] Like it doesn't seem like the most sexy alternative religion.

[00:17:04] Oh, come follow us and give up on sex and give up on good food and wine and you know,

[00:17:12] like you're selling it.

[00:17:14] Yeah, like you're going for a real niche group of people that are going to be attracted to this lifestyle.

[00:17:22] Yeah, according to Michael Conner's, the former member that I quoted earlier,

[00:17:25] he was drawn to the group because it married his Christian beliefs with to him a more pragmatic explanation.

[00:17:31] For example, while the group did teach about the virgin Mary, they taught that she was not

[00:17:35] impregnated by immaculate and conception, but instead was impregnated after she was taken onto an alien spaceship.

[00:17:41] And for Conner's quote, now is unbelievable as that sounds.

[00:17:44] That was an answer that was better than just plain virgin birth.

[00:17:48] Conner said quote, it was technical.

[00:17:50] It had physicality to it.

[00:17:52] So this is for like the faith as hard that seems unbelievable.

[00:17:58] You're now giving me a story that I can believe.

[00:18:02] Yeah, which again, it's exactly what we would think Apple White would be thinking at this time.

[00:18:07] Yeah, being at so many crossroads in his life.

[00:18:10] I mean, I can actually kind of understand the allure,

[00:18:13] especially if you're thinking about this originated in the 70s.

[00:18:17] And this is the time period right after technology is having a crazy turn of events between the 70s and 90s.

[00:18:28] It was going on zero to 60 in how technology affected people's everyday lives.

[00:18:34] And after the fact that men walking on the moon in 69,

[00:18:39] that they're wanting to be able to marry all these technical advancements and the interest in,

[00:18:49] you know, the stars and space travel with religion.

[00:18:53] I could see that how it kind of blended itself and maybe was a way to reconcile the differences.

[00:19:00] Yeah. Okay, question for y'all.

[00:19:01] And I don't think we've covered this on the podcast yet.

[00:19:05] Do you believe in aliens?

[00:19:06] We both look at the millie first. What are you going to say?

[00:19:15] I'm happy to answer first if you guys are scared of answering.

[00:19:20] I don't know, I can't like that.

[00:19:21] Do you believe in aliens?

[00:19:24] I mean, not, I don't know.

[00:19:26] I don't believe in little green men necessarily.

[00:19:29] No, no, no, but I'm also don't believe it necessarily that we,

[00:19:33] it's a big wide universe that we are not the only ones out there.

[00:19:38] I don't know. I'd like to believe as much as I'd like to believe in the spiritual,

[00:19:43] the mystical I'd like to believe there could be life on other planets.

[00:19:49] Yeah, I would agree.

[00:19:50] But like Mel said and you said, not like little green men running around.

[00:19:54] I think we wouldn't recognize like just organisms on other.

[00:19:58] Yeah.

[00:19:59] I think it's very egocentric to believe that all right revolves around us.

[00:20:03] And we are the only things that could possibly be out there.

[00:20:07] But I don't believe in little green men.

[00:20:09] So, yes, so I think we're all in the same page.

[00:20:11] Yeah, it never happens.

[00:20:16] I feel like I've seen a spaceship before.

[00:20:19] Oh, really?

[00:20:20] Oh, wait.

[00:20:21] Yes.

[00:20:22] Well, you're going to tell us the story and then you can decide if we're going to keep this in.

[00:20:25] I'm so excited.

[00:20:26] Where did you see a spaceship, Alanna?

[00:20:29] In the mountains in California,

[00:20:30] I feel like it was nighttime.

[00:20:33] I may have been sleepy, but I feel like there was a spaceship.

[00:20:37] And by sleepy, I say in quotation marks where they're like,

[00:20:41] No, I was young.

[00:20:42] I was not.

[00:20:43] It was young.

[00:20:43] It was young.

[00:20:44] Oh, yeah.

[00:20:44] All right.

[00:20:45] Yeah.

[00:20:45] Mel, someone's waiting to get into this later.

[00:20:48] There are so much fun that I have here.

[00:20:50] I could just make me so happy to hear this.

[00:20:53] I don't know.

[00:20:54] I watched Men and Block the other day.

[00:20:56] That was all this fun.

[00:20:58] So I've always wanted to believe in the impossible.

[00:21:04] So I'm probably, but the fact that you think that you saw pretty sure.

[00:21:09] Okay.

[00:21:10] I'm going to need to dig into this over there.

[00:21:12] Let's keep going.

[00:21:13] All right.

[00:21:14] Okay.

[00:21:15] So if all of this wasn't, could be sounding enough.

[00:21:18] They're about to get worse.

[00:21:20] In 1985, Nettles died of cancer,

[00:21:22] which dealt a significant blow to Apple Light and Followers because they believed that before the apocalypse would arrive

[00:21:27] in a way that they would be able to get into the virus.

[00:21:28] But it's like, you know, it's like a great opportunity to sort of believe in the Earth.

[00:21:29] The group would be whisked away on a spaceship and say from the destruction and death.

[00:21:33] Yeah.

[00:21:33] Seems like a great opportunity to sort of maybe rethink some of their beliefs and tenants if she passes away before.

[00:21:39] You would think so, but they almost lean into it more.

[00:21:42] They, they doubled down totally.

[00:21:45] Apple White began telling us followers that our human bodies were merely vessels or vehicles.

[00:21:50] It would be abandoned when it was time to ascend to the next level.

[00:21:53] So they, yeah, they dug their heels in to his story.

[00:21:55] They totally did and by the early 90s, they had tweaked their beliefs to fit the new agenda and started to recruit new members.

[00:22:02] That's a good time span though.

[00:22:04] Like, mid 70s, early 90s, like the press going for a long time.

[00:22:07] This is so long cult.

[00:22:09] Let's be.

[00:22:09] Yeah.

[00:22:10] Because usually, I feel like they self-destruct a little bit.

[00:22:12] So yeah.

[00:22:12] Now this has been going on for a while.

[00:22:14] I think what Mell said was so dead on that he really believed this stuff.

[00:22:18] Like it wasn't like one person was trying to manipulate people and people saw through it.

[00:22:22] Like he believed it wholeheartedly.

[00:22:25] So I think that probably helped.

[00:22:27] I mean, it just got us to show either the charisma amongst him and

[00:22:33] Nettles or just the amount of people out there that really just want to believe.

[00:22:37] And I can get that.

[00:22:38] I think, again, the fact that some people just really want to believe in something.

[00:22:45] And then if somebody comes in with a great answer and a conviction.

[00:22:51] I don't know.

[00:22:52] It obviously seemed to be working.

[00:22:53] Yeah. So the ever charismatic.

[00:22:55] I was going to have manipulator written in here.

[00:22:57] But now Mellie has me all like shook up.

[00:22:59] Like he wasn't manipulative.

[00:23:01] I'm all like he was manipulative.

[00:23:03] But I think you really believed.

[00:23:04] Yeah.

[00:23:04] No, yeah. Totally. You're yes.

[00:23:07] You've rocked my world with that.

[00:23:08] That's yes.

[00:23:08] You're absolutely right.

[00:23:10] So Abba White convinces the followers to all the same clothes.

[00:23:13] Get the same haircut and again,

[00:23:16] they were still agreeing to forego sex even to the point of castration.

[00:23:21] So new members.

[00:23:22] He's still convincing people to do this.

[00:23:24] I guess that's like you're not raising up kids in the cold that way.

[00:23:28] You're having to find new followers all right.

[00:23:30] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:31] You're exactly right.

[00:23:32] That's enough. You guys all both pull in my mind.

[00:23:36] Look up.

[00:23:36] Oh, so smart today.

[00:23:38] Good. Yeah.

[00:23:40] In 1995 astronomers discovered the Halebop comet.

[00:23:45] Apple White came to believe and teach that the aliens were coming to Earth in a spaceship,

[00:23:49] hiding behind the tail of the Halebop.

[00:23:50] You also believe that nettles would be aboard the spacecraft.

[00:23:53] Okay. So I was confused by this.

[00:23:56] And so I just wanted to interject here because I had to do a little Google research

[00:24:00] that the Halebop comet should not be confused with the famous A-Leas comet.

[00:24:06] Completely different comments.

[00:24:08] That just happened to have very similar names.

[00:24:11] The Halebop was named after the astronomers who discovered it.

[00:24:15] Hale and Bob in 85 while the Haleas comet last appeared in 1986.

[00:24:22] And it was often called the most famous comment because it was the first comment to show astronomers.

[00:24:26] It actually returned to the night sky and that kind of eclipse fashion.

[00:24:31] So the next time the Haleas comet is going to come back as it can be around 261.

[00:24:39] But people have been seeing it on Earth since the rover 2000 years because it comes back every 72 to 80 years.

[00:24:47] But anyway, just want to make sure that we all kind of understood two different comments.

[00:24:51] But the Halebop comet was where Apple White was saying that the UFOs were hiding in the tail.

[00:24:59] Yep, that's right.

[00:25:00] Also did you know Bob was a slang word now that kids need use?

[00:25:04] No. You call for an abop.

[00:25:06] And what does that mean?

[00:25:07] I think it means a flirt. I think.

[00:25:10] Oh, I'll ask our kids.

[00:25:12] And my kid probably won't know.

[00:25:13] No, we just wanted to.

[00:25:14] Yeah, I mean let's be honest now. My kids would not know.

[00:25:16] If it was not a movie related or weird history related, might or golf related my kids would not know.

[00:25:25] But you know I like to Bob.

[00:25:28] Well, it's different now.

[00:25:29] No, no, don't say that.

[00:25:31] Don't say that.

[00:25:31] No, no, no, no.

[00:25:32] We're such boomers.

[00:25:33] And we're not boomers, but like my kids like to call me boomer and I'm like, I am way too.

[00:25:39] Yeah, seriously.

[00:25:42] Okay. So in 1996 Apple White rented a home in Rancho,

[00:25:46] San Jose near San Diego, California for $7,000 a month.

[00:25:50] Holy crap.

[00:25:51] Yeah, that's a lot of money.

[00:25:52] It is a lot of money.

[00:25:54] And it's a lot of money now, but in 96 for a house.

[00:25:57] Guess where they made their money?

[00:25:59] I am actually like wondering totally.

[00:26:01] I had to look that up because I'm like, how did this happen?

[00:26:04] It's a fancy neighborhood.

[00:26:07] Did they have their people just like sign over their bank accounts?

[00:26:11] No. Okay.

[00:26:12] What are they doing?

[00:26:13] I'm going to think 1996 and what was up and coming.

[00:26:18] It aren't it.

[00:26:20] Yes, they made their money designing web pages.

[00:26:23] Oh, well, that's creative.

[00:26:25] See, I feel like these people are all very, very intelligent people.

[00:26:29] Well, okay.

[00:26:29] So we've talked about this before.

[00:26:31] And I'm sorry.

[00:26:32] I'm not going to remember the name of the show right now, but we'll link to it in the show notes.

[00:26:36] There is a great podcast about these two women that became members of a cult.

[00:26:41] And the whole podcast is essentially like, if it can happen to us, it can happen to anybody.

[00:26:46] I remember that they were in college right?

[00:26:47] They were called as a human.

[00:26:48] I think that's where I'm.

[00:26:50] When I was listening to a couple of videos the other day and it's actually an act like I knew

[00:26:56] it was the soft time I had, but you jumped memory.

[00:26:59] They were saying that the head and the get cult was the first cult of the internet age.

[00:27:05] The ability that I thought they got a lot of their followers because they created these

[00:27:11] internet and web pages that that said they were able to kind of like communicate their vision

[00:27:18] to people that it wasn't just the traditional, maybe giving out a hand out.

[00:27:23] So when you first said they were creating web pages, I was thinking they were doing that for money.

[00:27:28] They were just talented, but like creating like business pages for other people.

[00:27:33] But they were using it to like make money in terms of like, I think people going.

[00:27:39] It's okay.

[00:27:40] Both, yeah.

[00:27:42] Maybe they can teach us a little bit about like SEO and we'll make their dad.

[00:27:46] Geotargeting.

[00:27:47] Oh, I didn't make that clear before.

[00:27:49] Well there's a few of them so well.

[00:27:51] Because I promise you the websites are still too thick.

[00:27:54] But like the rancher Sanfay, this is like, I mean, I don't know much about it.

[00:27:58] But like that neighborhood is for Northern San Diego between San Diego and LA, but closer to San Diego.

[00:28:05] Okay.

[00:28:06] But there's like the theme is the in at an in at Rancher Sanfay, which is a famous hotel.

[00:28:12] I mean, this is like a fancy nice upscale neighborhood.

[00:28:17] Yeah.

[00:28:18] Well, I want to know where up there.

[00:28:19] Okay.

[00:28:19] So it was a two-story single family residence with 9,000, 11 square feet of livable space, only count.

[00:28:27] Seven bedrooms, seven bathrooms, a two-car garage, a limousine garage, a sauna, a pool, spa, tennis courts,

[00:28:34] and a few of the ocean in all sat on 3.11 acres.

[00:28:39] Okay. Well now I'm feeling like they got a good deal in this house.

[00:28:43] Preserve thousand a month.

[00:28:44] In 97, 96.

[00:28:45] I mean, every single family residence needs to be 9,000 square feet of livable space.

[00:28:52] And with a limousine garage?

[00:28:54] I mean, I agree.

[00:28:57] I also think that, wow, they must have been doing pretty well in the house.

[00:29:01] Yeah, genius.

[00:29:03] Despite the fact that the least stated only seven people may live in the home over 20 followers and have it at the mansion at 18241,

[00:29:10] Collina, Norte.

[00:29:11] The home was owned by Sam.

[00:29:15] I'm going to call it.

[00:29:16] I said it could be just a funny.

[00:29:17] I might be blurturing it, but that's what I'm going to go with.

[00:29:19] I like it.

[00:29:20] Who wasn't Iranian entrepreneur?

[00:29:23] And he had bought the home in 1994 for 1.3 million.

[00:29:27] They paid rent and cash.

[00:29:28] And as we stated earlier, they made their money in the early days of the internet by designing what pages.

[00:29:33] So it's here that the group would begin to prepare for discarding their bodies or vessels as they would call them and wait for the comet, the spaceship and nettles.

[00:29:41] On March 19th, 1997, the group of adults ranging from ages 26 to 72 began to record farewell messages.

[00:29:51] In the tape, they insisted that their suicides would not be suicides in the way that we define suicide.

[00:29:55] But rather a shedding of their earthly bodies is that they could ascend onto the spaceship behind the helbott comet that would take them to the next level, the kingdom of heaven.

[00:30:05] Yeah, I was reading some articles that they considered themselves a class and that they were going to be graduating.

[00:30:13] And then leaving their earthly bodies was going to be their graduation ceremony.

[00:30:19] And we were pretty, pretty morbid.

[00:30:22] Yeah, but for them, they were happy that they showed the members to be happy and excited about what they were about to experience.

[00:30:28] Several days after recording the farewells, members began committing suicide by eating applesauce lace with peanut barbottal and washing it down with vodka.

[00:30:37] They then placed a plastic bag over their heads to induce a spiksyation.

[00:30:41] The group took three days to commit the act, dying in groups that they could clean up and arrange a deceased after they succumbed to death.

[00:30:48] The living members were moved to plastic bags from the deceased heads, placed them onto a bed or makeshift bed.

[00:30:53] Well, their arms across their bodies and covered their faces in torso with a purple cloth.

[00:30:58] When it was all said and done, 39 members of the group had committed suicide.

[00:31:03] Authorities were notified of the event via anonymous phone call to authorities on March 26.

[00:31:08] Days later, the call was identified as Rio de Angelou, a former member who had received the farewell tapes and a letter detailing with the group had done.

[00:31:16] The first deputy to arrive at the home described a pungent odor emanating from the home and personally saw tin dead bodies before two more deputies arrived

[00:31:24] and upon walking the home found the remaining bodies.

[00:31:28] The 21 women in 18 men were all dressed in the exact same black t-shirt and druggy pants.

[00:31:33] All had the same haircut and wore the same black and white Nike decades shoes.

[00:31:37] This goes back to their whole theory of like they were all going to like a dronge as they were all like exactly the same.

[00:31:45] Apparently they had gone and had the same dinner, the exact same dinner and Marie calendars the night before.

[00:31:53] They were definitely trying to sort of blend their identities.

[00:31:57] And I did see that Nike discontinued those shoes shortly thereafter.

[00:32:03] I'll talk about two brands that don't really want to be associated Marie calendars and Nike that seems fair.

[00:32:10] So additionally, they also wore arm bands at red heavens gate o-waiting.

[00:32:15] They also had a five dollar bill and set it by since in their pockets when they were playing.

[00:32:20] What? Really? Yeah.

[00:32:21] Was that like passage to the next life? I really don't know.

[00:32:25] But it was very specific. Very specific.

[00:32:27] There was one article I read that a former member said that that was kind of like a joke like an inside joke.

[00:32:33] But I don't get the joke. Okay, I don't all. Yeah.

[00:32:38] So we have 21 and 18s like 40 some people almost 39 39.

[00:32:45] Yeah 39 people when I was researching it, I was like how did they know that it took them three days and they did it in groups?

[00:32:52] But then it occurred to me after reading it.

[00:32:56] I thought there was like outline and black and white that they knew because the last two people did not have the bags over their heads.

[00:33:02] Well, and they could probably tell time of death and like what?

[00:33:05] What? I think of death. Well, I had been days.

[00:33:06] So there are there is some speculation on the amount of days that they took, but it's why I like something it was three days at three day period.

[00:33:13] But there have been some days.

[00:33:15] Like I think it's in six days before they were finally discovered.

[00:33:18] Well, and how long would it have taken to discover them if somebody hadn't called in this date?

[00:33:23] Yes. I mean, it could have been months for sure.

[00:33:27] Wow. Okay. Yeah. So do you want to know what happened in the house? Yes, absolutely.

[00:33:31] The home was foreclosed on while Sam owned a property because he was in prison and mel you have some inside information.

[00:33:37] We'll not inside. It's a widely publicized but you had some information on that.

[00:33:41] Yeah. I mean, he definitely had there's probably a reason why he was distracted and rented it out to this cult because he was undergoing fraud and investigation.

[00:33:55] There was a lot of the things that he's kind of in a torturous figure at that time period.

[00:34:01] And so he probably was fairly distracted.

[00:34:04] He was willing to accept rent and cash, which is a red flag.

[00:34:07] Yeah. Can you imagine how much the neighbors just must have loved having this mansion extorbing lived in by 20 plus people coming and going in a cult?

[00:34:19] I'm sure that they were super popular in the neighborhood.

[00:34:23] Yeah. Yeah. Sam,

[00:34:24] But, and in prison and he had some fraud and investigations.

[00:34:32] They were saying that he had a fake visa scheme going on.

[00:34:36] So there was a lot going on at the time.

[00:34:38] So they were able to find the right person to rent from who was not going to be super involved during this time period.

[00:34:44] Maybe the neighbors thought they were all the same person since they were.

[00:34:47] I mean, they did draw the line. Yeah. They had the same haircut and they could have.

[00:34:52] Well, I mean, definitely they could be confused by how many people.

[00:34:57] It's like if you're renting and you have three dogs that look exactly the same or any of your neighbors going to know if you just walk one deli at a time.

[00:35:04] Yeah. Yeah. Like I just saw that person.

[00:35:06] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:09] So there was a lot of damage done to the home apparently.

[00:35:12] There was a reportedly a hundred thousand dollars worth of damage to the home.

[00:35:16] Wait. What damage would they have done? I mean, they sounded like.

[00:35:20] Then something they were. No, well, they were maybe a little crazy, but like they weren't like throwing parties.

[00:35:27] Right. Yeah. So apparently, like I said, they had been there for about six days before they were discovered and apparently that bodies blow and excruciate.

[00:35:38] Okay. Yeah. We'll just continue. Yes, I've got that. I did ask.

[00:35:41] Yeah. I did.

[00:35:43] The home was one of the market after cleanup in sold to real estate developer William Strong in 1999 for 668 thousand dollars, which is much lower than the 1.4 million dollar estimated lot value after that William Strong sold the home to neighbors who got together and had the home demolished and changed the address of the whole street.

[00:36:04] They changed the whole street.

[00:36:07] Good for them. I mean, we've talked about an address where the house change or the whole street. Yeah, they're like, I'm not doing this.

[00:36:15] Love it. Yeah.

[00:36:16] Yeah.

[00:36:17] Not on my wall. Right.

[00:36:18] Yeah.

[00:36:19] I mean, that just goes to show sometimes the power of money.

[00:36:24] Well, or community.

[00:36:25] Oh, that too.

[00:36:26] I was saying to be a community community community and money together.

[00:36:31] Very powerful.

[00:36:33] So what do you all think?

[00:36:34] Well, okay. So they changed the street and the house was demolished. It's somebody ever built on it or is yes, they can.

[00:36:39] There's another home built on it. It says that it's a very similar to the home that was there previously in the way it looks by mistimming all the houses kind of look the same in that community.

[00:36:50] But yeah, there's a home there.

[00:36:52] Okay.

[00:36:52] Now.

[00:36:54] So is the question when we live there?

[00:36:56] Yeah.

[00:36:56] I'm a hard pass.

[00:36:58] Okay.

[00:36:59] And I'm probably a hard pass on selling it.

[00:37:03] I'm not really a hard pass on selling it.

[00:37:03] Wait, are we talking about the house if it were there in its original?

[00:37:06] I'm talking about both both.

[00:37:09] I definitely a hard pass on selling the original house and living there.

[00:37:14] I'm probably.

[00:37:16] Hmm.

[00:37:16] I don't like it.

[00:37:17] It's too many deaths in one spot.

[00:37:19] I don't like it.

[00:37:21] Mm-hmm.

[00:37:21] I love when we all just like surprised each other because he's had their

[00:37:25] Usually like, oh, yes.

[00:37:27] I'll do anything for a buck.

[00:37:29] Oh, oh.

[00:37:30] Hey, girl, I just have some plus.

[00:37:32] Okay.

[00:37:32] Yeah, you do.

[00:37:33] You told you.

[00:37:35] Absolutely not the original house.

[00:37:38] Absolutely not.

[00:37:38] I'm really kind of respect the fact that the neighbors, yeah, did together on that one.

[00:37:43] I think that's kind of like that was that was kind of cool for sure.

[00:37:47] So I like that unless issue prone with the new build and the same

[00:37:54] spot there, you know, does feel little like a horror movie.

[00:38:00] I don't know.

[00:38:01] 39 people went to house.

[00:38:04] That takes you out of the normal norm of natural.

[00:38:08] But I probably would be inclined to at least entertain it.

[00:38:13] But heck, no with the original house.

[00:38:15] I agree with Mel.

[00:38:16] I think I would do the original house hard pass.

[00:38:19] But I kind of feel like I might do the new house.

[00:38:21] I kind of feel like you would.

[00:38:22] They died happy.

[00:38:24] Their video tapes.

[00:38:25] They were happy.

[00:38:25] They seemed at peace when they left.

[00:38:27] Now the pictures on the internet are very jarring because all that they have like the crime

[00:38:31] scene pictures where you see the purple clock over their heads and on beds.

[00:38:36] And then they have referred, you know, after math or fragrated trucks outside pulling up.

[00:38:41] That's really jarring.

[00:38:43] I wouldn't want to see that.

[00:38:43] I'm going to call your bluff.

[00:38:44] If we walked into this house, she would be like, hell, no get me out of here.

[00:38:49] I might have to feel the vibe.

[00:38:51] Yeah, you know it.

[00:38:51] Okay, alright.

[00:38:52] Alright, I respect that.

[00:38:53] I respect that.

[00:38:54] You called me up in that.

[00:38:55] I think this was a really good interesting story and I didn't know anything about

[00:38:59] this cold slash.

[00:39:00] Which is okay.

[00:39:01] Thank you for that.

[00:39:02] Somebody said I had it like over the long or time ago.

[00:39:05] So when we first started talking about it, I realized it was in like late 90s.

[00:39:10] I was like, oh, this is like, I don't know.

[00:39:14] Like hard.

[00:39:15] Yeah.

[00:39:15] Yeah.

[00:39:15] Like I was thinking of it.

[00:39:18] It's being something more.

[00:39:19] I don't know.

[00:39:20] Like before I was, it's bad to say that, you know, pretty melancholy post melany.

[00:39:26] I sort of differentiate it by mind.

[00:39:29] So have you all watched the Netflix series wild wild country?

[00:39:33] I started to watch it but I have not, I'm not finished it.

[00:39:35] I don't know there's something about it.

[00:39:36] I was like, this is not sitting right.

[00:39:38] So it, I'm fascinated with it.

[00:39:40] But I think what's most fascinating to me.

[00:39:42] It's a cold probably taking place in like the 70s, 80s, 90s.

[00:39:48] But they're filming themselves.

[00:39:50] And so all of the documentary footage is like footage, they actually took.

[00:39:56] And so they're talking about what's going on, but you have all this like,

[00:39:59] make it all images.

[00:40:00] There is some nakedness too.

[00:40:02] Yeah.

[00:40:02] But yes.

[00:40:03] So that's it.

[00:40:04] It's like they're very much paying attention to themselves and documenting themselves.

[00:40:09] And then that comes back to bite them in the ass with this documentary and other things.

[00:40:13] But anyway, yeah.

[00:40:15] Maybe there are some good documentaries on him and she too.

[00:40:18] I did watch a couple of the videos, the pre-death videos.

[00:40:25] And like they were kind of like joyful, like really enthusiastic and excited.

[00:40:32] And basically I felt like they were trying to document that they knew what they were doing.

[00:40:37] Now I mean we would disagree completely on what they were doing.

[00:40:40] They seemed to be it was seem to be like, oh no.

[00:40:45] I'm doing this of my own free will.

[00:40:48] And like Mel said that the website still functions.

[00:40:52] I did not go to it, but what I read is that it looks like a website that was built in 1997.

[00:40:56] But someone is still answering emails and there was even an article that's online that I'll link to that.

[00:41:02] They had a full on email conversation with someone who represents the,

[00:41:07] I was going to say, quote, quote, religion, whatever.

[00:41:10] That represents the group right now.

[00:41:11] And there's there is a husband and wife team who were involved with it back in the day that do maintain it.

[00:41:19] And they take it as a mission to respond to it.

[00:41:22] If anyone wants to go down the red red it rabbit hole that is out there.

[00:41:28] There is a at least one or two active members of the religion that still kind of reply to articles.

[00:41:37] And it seemed to be pretty valid that they have been involved since they get go.

[00:41:42] I think as part of the reason why I have a hard time calling it a cult consistently is because there are still practicing members of it.

[00:41:50] I don't want to be disrespectful to what they believe because there's like there's no we can call the maintenance family a cult because they're not around anymore or you know,

[00:41:58] Brain civilians that I know of. There's no more brain civilians, but anyhow.

[00:42:03] Well, okay so speaking of websites.

[00:42:05] Uh-huh.

[00:42:07] Uh, maybe we should plug ours a little bit.

[00:42:09] Sure.

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[00:43:08] Yeah, and the notes we like going back and reading the notes. The nice ones.

[00:43:12] Well, yeah, we don't share any of the nice ones with you. Yes, thank you.

[00:43:15] Oh, thank you. You're welcome.

[00:43:18] Alright, ladies. This was so fun.

[00:43:21] And yay for recording on the Saturday for the second time in a row.

[00:43:24] Bye, guys. Bye.

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