56 - Kreischer Mansion

Journey with us to Staten Island. Where we’re discussing the background leading up to the crime at Kreischer Mansion - via Balthazar Getty, Goodfellas and tricky real estate terms.

The Real Estate: 4500 Arthur Kill Road | Staten Island, NY

Show Notes & Sources: https://www.crimeestate.com

This episode edited by the oh-so-talented, Elena

[00:00:04] At the intersection of true crime and real estate, you'll find Crime Estate. I'm Heather.

[00:00:09] And my name is Elena. As real estate agents and true crime junkies, we view crimes through

[00:00:14] a different lens. So walk through the door of some of the most notorious true crimes with

[00:00:18] us and discover how sometimes the scene of the crime has its own story to tell.

[00:00:25] Hey y'all, we are back with a fascinating crime estate for you today. I'm going to be

[00:00:30] honest, I have not dug deep into the research on today's story, but Melanie and Elena have

[00:00:35] been texting back and forth about it like crazy. So I'm super excited for the episode you're

[00:00:40] bringing us today, Elena.

[00:00:41] Yeah, it's a really old one and I'm really excited to talk about it. And thank you, Mel,

[00:00:45] for all the research you did in the background. Appreciate that.

[00:00:47] Well, this is a big story that I had never heard of.

[00:00:50] Yeah.

[00:00:51] So I think this will be a lot of fun and it'll be great for our listeners as well.

[00:00:55] Yeah. So let's go to Staten Island today.

[00:00:58] Ooh, Staten Island.

[00:00:59] Yeah.

[00:01:00] Yeah. Unlike the boroughs of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx, Staten Island is not

[00:01:06] connected to the New York City subways.

[00:01:08] Hmm. I didn't know that.

[00:01:10] Yeah.

[00:01:10] Have you ever ridden the New York City subways?

[00:01:12] No.

[00:01:12] Mm-mm.

[00:01:13] Yes.

[00:01:14] Mel's like, yes, obviously I have.

[00:01:16] I thought this was like a trick question. I'm like, well, yes, of course. My husband's

[00:01:22] in New York right now and I just happened to notice one of the pictures. He was on the

[00:01:26] subways this afternoon. So yes, I love the subways. My kids love them. It's very user

[00:01:33] friendly.

[00:01:34] Okay. But apparently you can't use it if you leave at Staten Island.

[00:01:38] Right. Exactly.

[00:01:39] I know. If you're going to, you're probably taking the train or I bet there's a ferry system

[00:01:43] that you would be taking over.

[00:01:45] Okay.

[00:01:45] Yeah.

[00:01:46] How did the people of Staten Island feel about this though? Like do they have to feel disconnected?

[00:01:50] Right. For sure. And actually they voted at one point to secede from New York City.

[00:01:54] Oh.

[00:01:55] Like to be their own.

[00:01:55] To be their own place. But shortly after, Rudy Giuliani became the mayor and he did enough

[00:02:00] to appease the voters of Staten Island and they dropped the bid to break off in the city.

[00:02:03] Oh, so like recently.

[00:02:05] Yeah.

[00:02:05] Well, I mean.

[00:02:06] Well.

[00:02:07] In our lifetime.

[00:02:08] Yes.

[00:02:10] Is that where we're at right now?

[00:02:12] Oh, wait. Rudy Giuliani's had a whole like second and third career since then.

[00:02:16] If it's within our lifetime, it is absolutely recently in my opinion.

[00:02:22] All right.

[00:02:22] That is my stake in the ground that I will work. Yeah. I've never been to Staten Island. I think

[00:02:29] it's probably one of the places like, you know, areas at Dallas that is great if you

[00:02:33] live there or have a reason to be. But if you don't have a reason to be, you're probably

[00:02:36] never there. I do watch this comedy TV show that's pretty funny called What You Do in the

[00:02:42] Shadows. And it is about these vampires. It's very funny.

[00:02:47] Is it comedy?

[00:02:48] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We watch it with the kids, which we may or may not should have.

[00:02:52] But it's a comedy show about vampires who live in a mansion in Staten Island.

[00:02:56] Oh, neat. Neat.

[00:02:57] We'll see if there's a new relationship.

[00:02:59] Yeah.

[00:02:59] I was going to say. Are we talking about a mansion in Staten Island today?

[00:03:02] We are.

[00:03:02] Oh, okay. Look at that.

[00:03:04] And this mansion is at 4500 Arthur Kill Road, which, yeah.

[00:03:08] Sorry, we just have to pause. Say that again.

[00:03:10] Arthur Kill Road.

[00:03:12] Yeah.

[00:03:13] Yeah, I know.

[00:03:14] Okay. So real quick, and we can come back to this at the end, but are there street names

[00:03:19] you would not live on?

[00:03:21] Arthur Kill Road.

[00:03:22] That would be, I mean, I'm not going to say my street name because you all don't need

[00:03:27] to know it, but I didn't like our street name when we bought this house.

[00:03:31] And I was like, why? I don't know. I don't know that I like the name enough to live there.

[00:03:37] That's weird.

[00:03:38] It's just sort of an old lady's name.

[00:03:40] It's not anything like, you know.

[00:03:42] Or it could be like a little baby. I could see a little baby being named that.

[00:03:46] Maybe. I don't know. I just didn't like it.

[00:03:48] What about you, Mel? A particular street name?

[00:03:52] I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would be so egregious.

[00:03:55] Although, weirdly enough that you say that, I was watching some TikTok video yesterday,

[00:04:01] and it was someone in a small town in Appalachia who lived on a very bad-sounding name of a road.

[00:04:09] And she was saying that people always hung up on her when she was like on the phone trying

[00:04:14] to give the address out to people because everyone thought that she was making a joke or being

[00:04:22] sexist or something.

[00:04:23] Oh, gotcha. So you got to think about those things.

[00:04:25] Well, 4,500 Arthur Kill Road was a 67 square foot home.

[00:04:30] Just 67 square feet?

[00:04:31] What did I say?

[00:04:32] You said 67.

[00:04:33] Oh, shit.

[00:04:34] Was it a little bigger than that?

[00:04:36] It was much bigger than that at 6,700 square feet.

[00:04:40] Oh, okay. That's good.

[00:04:40] Yes. That would be like, we can walk in like a little waddle around, like 67.

[00:04:45] Yeah, we could like high-five each other from each side of the house.

[00:04:48] So we're going to take it way back. Way, way back.

[00:04:52] It was built in 1885 by German immigrant Balthazar Kreischer.

[00:04:56] Okay. That is quite the strong name.

[00:04:59] It really is. And we had a little bit of debate before we started recording as to how to say it,

[00:05:04] but I think two of the three of us are saying Kreischer, so we're going to go with that.

[00:05:07] So if you speak German and that's wrong, let us know.

[00:05:10] Yeah. That's true. Yeah.

[00:05:12] And Balthazar, like, what do you think they called him?

[00:05:15] Balthy?

[00:05:18] No, I think it's all they called him.

[00:05:19] Balthazar.

[00:05:20] Balthazar. It's a mouthful.

[00:05:22] Maybe nicknames weren't a thing in the 1800s.

[00:05:24] Maybe.

[00:05:25] To show you my age and that I grew up in the 90s, Balthazar Getty.

[00:05:31] Oh, yeah.

[00:05:31] Oh, yeah. I thought he was so hot.

[00:05:33] Oh, really?

[00:05:33] Oh, yes. I thought he was so hot in the 90s and mysterious, so that was my...

[00:05:38] Okay. Well, your job is to send me a picture of him so I can put it on our socials for this

[00:05:42] because I have no idea who that is.

[00:05:43] Balthazar Getty from the 90s. Also part of the Getty family, so, you know, probably some money in there.

[00:05:48] What's the Getty family?

[00:05:49] Like Getty images?

[00:05:51] Oh, you poor woman.

[00:05:53] No, no. The Getty mansions all over. The Getty Museum in L.A.

[00:05:57] The Getty...

[00:05:58] Oh.

[00:05:59] Some of the richest family in the 90s.

[00:06:00] Oh, okay. I thought spaghetti.

[00:06:02] Now your job is to see if there is a Getty family story we can research.

[00:06:05] Oh, I am sure there absolutely is.

[00:06:07] There's got to be.

[00:06:08] All right. Back to Balthazar.

[00:06:09] Okay. Balthazar.

[00:06:10] So Balthazar lived in a small Bavarian village until the age of 23 when he came to New York in 1836.

[00:06:16] And anytime I hear the word Bavarian, my mouth waters because I think about the cream puffs.

[00:06:21] Oh, yeah.

[00:06:22] It's so good.

[00:06:23] So shortly after his arrival in America, Balthazar met and wed Carolyn Heistin.

[00:06:29] Again, I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. I have no idea.

[00:06:32] But they proceeded to have seven children.

[00:06:34] Holy cow.

[00:06:34] I know.

[00:06:35] And the year prior to Kreischer immigrating to America, a fire destroyed much of lower Manhattan.

[00:06:41] Because Balthazar was born into a family who produced bricks, when he came to the U.S.,

[00:06:45] he quickly began to build a successful life by producing fire bricks.

[00:06:49] And he manufactured them on the Lower East Side of New York City.

[00:06:53] This led to the rebuilding and an economic boom for the city.

[00:06:56] In 1845, Balthazar met Charles Mumpton.

[00:07:00] Again, I think I'm pronouncing it correctly.

[00:07:02] M-U-M-P-T-O-N.

[00:07:04] What a horrible last name.

[00:07:05] I like it.

[00:07:06] I like it.

[00:07:06] Mumpton?

[00:07:06] Mumpton.

[00:07:07] Like he has the mumps?

[00:07:08] Oh, when you say it like that, I don't like it as much.

[00:07:10] Together, they opened a factory building these fireproof fire bricks.

[00:07:15] It was then that Kreischer and Mumpton bricks was born.

[00:07:18] Okay.

[00:07:19] Talk about reading the market.

[00:07:21] I mean, how clever and entrepreneurial is that?

[00:07:27] I know.

[00:07:27] And we've had a couple of stories that have involved the rebuilding of cities, right?

[00:07:35] Frank Lloyd Wright had gone to, was it New York?

[00:07:40] Where did he, Chicago?

[00:07:41] Where did he go when he was gone when the murders at Taliesin happened?

[00:07:45] Oh, I think he was in Chicago.

[00:07:47] Chicago.

[00:07:47] Yeah.

[00:07:48] Great fire there.

[00:07:50] Yeah.

[00:07:50] I mean, I also think that it's kind of neat that he probably didn't come from a lot of

[00:07:57] money back in Germany because obviously he was needing to immigrate at that time period.

[00:08:02] But it was a kind of the American dream.

[00:08:06] You know, this was the time of the example when somebody who with a skill, maybe not like

[00:08:10] the formal education that we look for today that could come across the country or world

[00:08:17] and reinvigorate themselves.

[00:08:19] And, you know, in these big cities like Chicago and New York, there was a lot of building going

[00:08:24] on.

[00:08:25] And then, you know, there are obviously fires also occurred a lot.

[00:08:28] You know, we know in San Francisco after the big earthquake, you know, in the 1800s, like

[00:08:34] there was a lot of change and urban development.

[00:08:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:39] Yeah.

[00:08:40] So unfortunately, though, Mumpton died within four years of the business beginning and Kreischer's

[00:08:45] nephew stepped in to help run the very successful operation.

[00:08:49] After the discovery of clay deposits in Staten Island in 1855, the company built a factory

[00:08:54] there.

[00:08:55] And by 1876, the entire manufacturing operation moved to Staten Island.

[00:09:00] Now, because the business brought such an incredible economy to the area and because Balthazar

[00:09:05] was extremely well-respected, the area near where the factory was built became known as

[00:09:10] Kreischerville.

[00:09:11] And when I read that, I kind of put all of our last names with Ville at the back and they

[00:09:16] all sounded really good.

[00:09:17] They all had a nice ring to it.

[00:09:19] I mean, yours is the best.

[00:09:20] Ritchieville?

[00:09:21] I thought Stoutville was the best.

[00:09:22] Stoutville's pretty good.

[00:09:24] In my husband's hometown, it's kind of a Czech-American hometown.

[00:09:29] There's definitely a neighborhood that every time we drive by it, my husband, jokingly, well,

[00:09:36] not jokingly, he calls it by the last name Ville.

[00:09:39] And it's because it was a whole bunch of kids that he grew up with that were all related

[00:09:44] second, third cousins of each other.

[00:09:46] And it used to be like grandparent land that had been gifted to the family.

[00:09:51] And so they all built houses on it and they're all related by some means.

[00:09:57] So I think it's not an uncommon phenomenon.

[00:10:00] I like it.

[00:10:01] So on the land that the factory sat, Kreischer built two identical homes, one for each of his

[00:10:07] sons, Edward and Charles.

[00:10:09] So he had seven kids.

[00:10:12] Two were sons and five were daughters.

[00:10:15] But the daughters didn't get houses.

[00:10:17] Actually, Heather, he had four daughters and then there was a third son, George.

[00:10:22] Oh, okay.

[00:10:22] So what exactly caused George not to get a house but Edward and Charles, did you say?

[00:10:28] Edward and Charles.

[00:10:29] They each got one.

[00:10:30] Yeah.

[00:10:30] I don't know exactly, but George comes back in the picture very soon.

[00:10:33] Oh, okay.

[00:10:33] Okay.

[00:10:34] So the homes were two and a half story, seven bedroom, wood framed American Queen Anne homes.

[00:10:40] We discussed Queen Anne style homes before, but because we are a real estate based true

[00:10:44] crime show, let's revisit.

[00:10:45] Yes, please.

[00:10:46] Let's do.

[00:10:47] I love a Queen Anne.

[00:10:49] No, is it too cutesy for you?

[00:10:51] It's too, it looks too haunted to me.

[00:10:54] Like it looks like it's haunted.

[00:10:56] So anyway.

[00:10:57] I like them.

[00:10:58] I like them.

[00:11:00] Well, it does.

[00:11:01] You don't see it at all?

[00:11:03] Well, I mean, a lot of old houses.

[00:11:06] I think you're just thinking old and Queen Anne seems old.

[00:11:09] Yeah, totally.

[00:11:10] It's not a style that we see a lot in Dallas, although there's two really cool ones on my

[00:11:16] street, at the far end of the street that apparently have been moved here many, many

[00:11:22] years ago.

[00:11:22] But it's definitely something I think you see more often in New England.

[00:11:26] Mm-hmm.

[00:11:28] Mm-hmm.

[00:11:28] Yeah.

[00:11:29] So Queen Anne style homes, or as I like to think of them, the most spooky looking of

[00:11:33] all architectural designs can be easily identified by their steeply pitched roofs, irregular shapes,

[00:11:40] their patterned shingles, their partial or wraparound porches, their asymmetrical facade,

[00:11:46] and their bay windows or any other design element that provides some depth to the home rather than a smooth

[00:11:51] walled look.

[00:11:52] Yeah, that sounds right.

[00:11:53] Yeah.

[00:11:54] I also think of them having like lots of colors, but that may just be...

[00:11:59] What we've done.

[00:12:00] Yeah.

[00:12:01] So in American though, an American Queen Anne home has these same features, but the American

[00:12:07] distinction is that the American Queen Anne home has some gingerbread-esque additions such

[00:12:11] as elaborate spindle work and excessive decorative elements.

[00:12:15] So yeah.

[00:12:16] So that's, yeah.

[00:12:18] Decorative elements like color.

[00:12:19] Yes.

[00:12:20] Yeah.

[00:12:21] We took that European trend and just gussied it up a little bit.

[00:12:24] Yeah.

[00:12:25] Yeah.

[00:12:26] The couple Queen Anne style homes that are in my neighborhood, which is very different

[00:12:33] from the other homes in the neighborhood, are very colorful and are as cute as like a

[00:12:38] gingerbread house.

[00:12:39] So I think that fits completely with what you're talking about.

[00:12:43] Yeah.

[00:12:43] So gingerbread-esque.

[00:12:44] I love that.

[00:12:45] It's not like technically a real estate architectural term, but I know what you mean.

[00:12:49] Yeah, exactly.

[00:12:50] So you say that word and just kind of a picture pops in your head.

[00:12:53] Are there any other like listing descriptions, Heather, that you use or Mel that you've read

[00:12:56] that it's like a buzzword or you automatically get a picture?

[00:13:00] Or if there's like fun ones, like I always feel like when an agent says it's quaint, it means

[00:13:05] it's small.

[00:13:05] Very small.

[00:13:06] Very small.

[00:13:07] Oh, yeah.

[00:13:08] I mean, even I know that quaint, it means small in real estate terms.

[00:13:13] I mean, not in a bad way.

[00:13:14] Mid-century modern has something that, you know, really kind of comes to me.

[00:13:21] McMansion, it kind of has, you know, an image in my head.

[00:13:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:13:27] Austin stone, which probably doesn't mean anything for people outside of Texas, but there was,

[00:13:32] you know, the trend for a long time of these white stone houses in here and in Austin where

[00:13:40] I used to live, that was really prevalent.

[00:13:42] Mm-hmm.

[00:13:43] Mm-hmm.

[00:13:44] Do you have anything like that, Heather?

[00:13:45] Mm.

[00:13:46] Shoot.

[00:13:46] I feel like you're putting me on the spot a little bit.

[00:13:48] No, that's okay.

[00:13:49] I'm just trying to think like, no, I don't have anything, Alana.

[00:13:53] Okay.

[00:13:53] Well, how would you describe a dark home and make it sound like better?

[00:13:57] Oh, so it's dark.

[00:13:58] It's dark.

[00:13:59] But like not dark philosophically, like actually dark.

[00:14:03] Like in terms of lighting, yes.

[00:14:04] Cozy.

[00:14:05] Ooh, yeah.

[00:14:07] I like that.

[00:14:08] Okay.

[00:14:08] Yeah.

[00:14:08] I like that.

[00:14:09] Yeah.

[00:14:10] That's another word that could.

[00:14:12] Could mean small.

[00:14:13] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:13] What about well-maintained?

[00:14:15] What does that say to you?

[00:14:16] That's a good one.

[00:14:17] Old.

[00:14:18] Yeah.

[00:14:18] But clean.

[00:14:19] Yeah.

[00:14:20] It's like a little old lady who has cleaned her house every day for the past 60 years.

[00:14:25] Yes.

[00:14:26] I wish she lived with me.

[00:14:27] The little old lady did clean the house.

[00:14:29] That makes me wonder what the opposite of well-maintained is and how that might be a description of my home in that scenario.

[00:14:38] Great bones, lots of potential.

[00:14:40] I mean, yes.

[00:14:40] I'm saying that is your home.

[00:14:42] I'm saying that's the opposite of well-maintained.

[00:14:44] Full of cookbooks.

[00:14:46] Well, that would be true.

[00:14:47] I do have a lot of cookbooks.

[00:14:49] Okay.

[00:14:49] All right.

[00:14:49] So, Dad built two of the three brothers these Queen Anne-style houses.

[00:14:53] Yes.

[00:14:54] Yes.

[00:14:55] So, Charles and Edward Kreischer, who were married to sisters, kind of cool, moved into the homes.

[00:15:01] But sadly, Balthazar died within a year of them being built at the age of 73.

[00:15:05] And I know it was the late 1800s, and that was probably a ripe old age then, but I really don't like that number.

[00:15:12] It feels a little too close for comfort.

[00:15:13] Like you think you're close enough to 73 that you're worried about?

[00:15:17] I think my parents are close enough to 73, and I think I'm 20 years behind them.

[00:15:21] So, yeah.

[00:15:22] Okay.

[00:15:23] You're a little bit more than 20 years, but okay.

[00:15:27] I'm sorry.

[00:15:28] It stresses you out.

[00:15:29] Yeah, totally.

[00:15:29] But yeah, it was a ripe old age in the 1800s for sure.

[00:15:34] So, as I was researching the story in a time period, I read about something interesting.

[00:15:38] Have y'all ever heard of ice caskets?

[00:15:41] 100% not.

[00:15:42] I know.

[00:15:42] I hadn't either, but apparently they were integral to undertakers as a means to preserve

[00:15:47] the body before embalming, and body refrigeration was a thing.

[00:15:50] There were many iterations of ice caskets over the early 1800s, but generally it was a coffin

[00:15:56] with a slab of ice that the body laid on.

[00:15:59] Some had glass on the upper top so that the lid could remain closed and the face could still

[00:16:04] be seen by loved ones who wished to view the body.

[00:16:06] If you think about it, at that time period, well, for centuries, someone passed away and

[00:16:12] you needed to bury them really, really quickly because there wasn't refrigeration techniques

[00:16:18] or wasn't embalming techniques, etc.

[00:16:20] And apparently in this time period, there was all these inventions that occurred kind of in

[00:16:28] the burial world.

[00:16:31] And I was reading about how the patent office in this late 1800s had a slew of new inventions

[00:16:41] related to burials.

[00:16:43] You know, if you think about it, that was the time period where they invented the idea of

[00:16:47] a bell that would go into a casket because there was all this like worry and urban legends

[00:16:53] that people would be put into that they were just in a coma and that they weren't really dead.

[00:16:58] Are you serious?

[00:16:59] That's a thing?

[00:17:01] Oh, yeah.

[00:17:02] Do they still do that?

[00:17:03] I don't think they still do that.

[00:17:04] Well, there's another embalm though.

[00:17:05] Yeah.

[00:17:05] So there's no chance of them being buried alive.

[00:17:08] That's really creepy.

[00:17:09] No, but it was a big fear.

[00:17:09] If you look back in this time period, so they would have the bell in the casket, or I'm sorry,

[00:17:15] like they would have like a rope that you could pull in the casket and there would be a

[00:17:19] bell outside of it.

[00:17:21] And so, you know, somebody who worked in the cemetery, if they saw the bell ringing, that

[00:17:26] meant the person really wasn't dead and they needed to come and bury them really quickly.

[00:17:29] That's messed up.

[00:17:30] I didn't know that.

[00:17:31] You would never recover from finding a casket with a bell ringing.

[00:17:34] Oh my gosh.

[00:17:34] No.

[00:17:35] Oh my gosh.

[00:17:35] No.

[00:17:36] I mean, I don't know if this ever actually like worked, but that was sort of the urban

[00:17:41] legend that somebody might be buried alive and that they, you know, there would be a

[00:17:45] big fear about this.

[00:17:46] So there's a whole slew of different types of inventions related to this.

[00:17:51] And so I bet the ice caskets actually performed a usefulness so that you could wait for people

[00:17:58] to travel in for a funeral.

[00:18:01] So do we know if Balthazar was put into an ice casket?

[00:18:04] He was put into an ice casket.

[00:18:06] And was it in his living room or would it have been of, okay, because that would have

[00:18:09] been appropriate for the time.

[00:18:10] I'm not sure when like mortuaries or funeral homes sort of became a thing, but the living

[00:18:16] room, like viewing was very popular for a long time.

[00:18:19] Yeah.

[00:18:20] Well, like the Lizzie Borden one we just did, they did the autopsy, right?

[00:18:24] Oh yeah.

[00:18:24] Like they were just doing everything in there.

[00:18:26] Like on the kitchen table or something.

[00:18:26] Yeah.

[00:18:26] They were just doing everything in there.

[00:18:28] So there you go.

[00:18:29] We've given you some real estate knowledge and some mortician knowledge.

[00:18:33] Yeah.

[00:18:34] Sure.

[00:18:34] Crime estate where you learn it all.

[00:18:36] New tagline.

[00:18:37] New tagline.

[00:18:38] A little bit of everything.

[00:18:39] Right.

[00:18:40] Yeah.

[00:18:40] So after Balthazar's death, his estate was split among his heirs, George, Edward, Charles,

[00:18:47] Catherine, Carolyn, Frederica, and Louise.

[00:18:50] That's seven?

[00:18:51] Yep.

[00:18:51] That's seven.

[00:18:52] However, tensions reportedly grew between the brothers when George purchased several of

[00:18:56] his sister's share of stock, giving him controlling interest of the family business.

[00:19:01] And just like that, George is back in the picture.

[00:19:03] There he is.

[00:19:03] He didn't get a house.

[00:19:05] He's like, I'm going to show them.

[00:19:07] Yeah.

[00:19:07] Not long after the patriarch's death, Balthazar's brick business fell on hard times.

[00:19:12] This is after George took control of the company.

[00:19:14] After George took control.

[00:19:15] Uh-oh.

[00:19:15] So a fire destroyed the business and plants, resulting in a loss of $125,000, which is over

[00:19:22] $4 million today.

[00:19:23] Wait, wait, wait.

[00:19:24] But they built fire bricks.

[00:19:26] I see the irony and I couldn't find anywhere on the internet where they saw the irony.

[00:19:30] I don't get it.

[00:19:32] You would think at least that kept their supply.

[00:19:34] Right.

[00:19:35] Yes.

[00:19:36] Yeah.

[00:19:37] What's happening?

[00:19:37] Right.

[00:19:38] You can't burn down your fire brick.

[00:19:40] Yeah.

[00:19:40] Okay.

[00:19:41] Sorry.

[00:19:41] Yeah.

[00:19:42] I'm glad you pointed that out because I was like, there's got to be a punchline in here

[00:19:45] somewhere and no one said anything about it.

[00:19:48] Leave it to me.

[00:19:49] Thank you.

[00:19:50] To be the asshole.

[00:19:50] I appreciate that.

[00:19:52] I was hoping you'd say it so I wouldn't have to.

[00:19:55] So this proved to be too much for Edward Kreischer and he reportedly took his own life with a

[00:20:00] gun shot to the temple on the grounds near the factory at 41 years old.

[00:20:05] However, the exact circumstances of his death are the subject of some speculation.

[00:20:10] Rumors about his death include Charles had something to do with Edward's death, including

[00:20:14] a rumor that Edward shot himself after a devastating fight with his brother.

[00:20:18] Edward shot himself to frame his wife's lover.

[00:20:21] However, but in the end, it appears that Edward simply could not deal with the loss of the business

[00:20:25] and decided to end his life, leaving his wife, Frida, and son, Harry.

[00:20:29] That's sad.

[00:20:30] I know.

[00:20:31] So Charles and his family were left to live on the land, occupying the home that sat atop

[00:20:36] a hill on the grounds.

[00:20:37] However, during the Great Depression, Charles' home was destroyed by fire.

[00:20:42] Again, leaving only one home.

[00:20:44] I know.

[00:20:45] Well, I'm sorry.

[00:20:46] If you make fire bricks for a living, why are you not building your son's houses out of

[00:20:52] fire bricks?

[00:20:53] I think that the reputation of fire bricks may leave much to be desired.

[00:21:01] I mean, I don't think there's any brick that's impervious to fire completely.

[00:21:08] Maybe it made it a little bit better.

[00:21:10] Okay.

[00:21:11] I mean, I guess brick be as opposed to wood.

[00:21:14] If you're just comparing brick to wood, you know, you're more likely to have a fire in

[00:21:19] a wood house.

[00:21:19] But let's be honest now, there was still wood in these brick houses.

[00:21:23] Well, and he built Queen Anne's, so it was absolutely a wood structure.

[00:21:25] Oh, right.

[00:21:25] You're right.

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:26] Fair enough.

[00:21:27] Okay.

[00:21:27] Sorry.

[00:21:28] I'm sorry for interrupting.

[00:21:29] I know I do that a lot.

[00:21:30] I just have a lot of questions.

[00:21:32] I'm glad you interrupt because as we've discussed before, I talk really fast, so it helps me to

[00:21:36] slow down.

[00:21:37] Okay.

[00:21:37] Like, oh, there's other people in the room who want to talk?

[00:21:39] Okay.

[00:21:40] So Great Depression.

[00:21:41] Great Depression.

[00:21:42] Charles' home was destroyed by fire.

[00:21:44] Yes.

[00:21:45] And so, but Edward still had a house there.

[00:21:47] There's one lone house on 4.5 acres in Sadden Island.

[00:21:51] But Edward was dead, so his wife and son were living there, and Charles was living in the

[00:21:56] other house that then burned down.

[00:21:58] So, because it was so long ago, there's lots of conflicting data online.

[00:22:02] Like, some people said Edward killed himself in the house, and some people said he killed

[00:22:06] himself outside the house.

[00:22:07] Some people said he killed himself in the office of the plant.

[00:22:09] Like, there's all sorts of-

[00:22:11] Yeah.

[00:22:11] Okay.

[00:22:11] And Frida, she got remarried to a doctor and, you know, lived another 20, 30 years.

[00:22:18] Okay.

[00:22:19] So there's not much known about what happened to the home between the Kreischers moving on,

[00:22:23] but what we do know is that New York City designated the home as a landmark in 1968.

[00:22:29] It had a brief time serving as a restaurant in 1996, and in 1998, it was purchased by Isaac

[00:22:36] Yomtavian, who had plans to restore and sell the home and property as a 55 and older community,

[00:22:41] which is another number that I feel very uncomfortable with.

[00:22:44] Like, we're super close to that, to 55.

[00:22:47] Yeah.

[00:22:48] I think that's too young for an adult community.

[00:22:51] It needs to be like 70 plus.

[00:22:53] They call them active life communities now.

[00:22:55] Yeah.

[00:22:55] My parents lived in one of those and hated it.

[00:22:57] Oh, I can see that about your parents.

[00:22:59] Yeah.

[00:22:59] Oh, yeah.

[00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:01] They've got too much going on.

[00:23:02] They were like, this is not the thing we want to do.

[00:23:04] Yeah.

[00:23:04] And they said you hurt ambulances a lot.

[00:23:07] Oh, man.

[00:23:08] Yeah.

[00:23:08] Okay.

[00:23:09] Sorry.

[00:23:10] So in 2005, the home was being cared for by Joseph Joe Black Young, who was hired by Yomtavian

[00:23:17] to be the groundskeeper.

[00:23:19] And if you couldn't tell by the cool nickname, Joe Black, Joseph Young, was associated with the

[00:23:23] mob.

[00:23:24] Okay.

[00:23:25] I love it.

[00:23:25] No, no, I could not tell.

[00:23:26] You could not.

[00:23:26] Oh, Mr. Joe Black.

[00:23:29] Fun fact about me.

[00:23:31] That's my favorite movie.

[00:23:32] One of my favorite movies.

[00:23:33] I have many favorite movies.

[00:23:34] Godfather.

[00:23:35] But you're close.

[00:23:37] I mean, it has to do with the mob.

[00:23:38] So like, did you watch all the Sopranos?

[00:23:43] I did not watch the Sopranos.

[00:23:44] Oh.

[00:23:44] I'm thinking it's going to be a comedy about the mob.

[00:23:48] Oh, I do like some of those though, but no, Goodfellas.

[00:23:51] Oh, that's a good one.

[00:23:52] Yes.

[00:23:53] That's a good Christmas movie.

[00:23:55] Don't they have a Christmas scene in Goodfellas?

[00:23:57] Hold on.

[00:23:58] I'm Googling.

[00:23:58] Wait.

[00:24:00] I'm pretty sure we watched that for Christmas one year or so.

[00:24:02] I like it.

[00:24:02] Did you watch it with Lincoln?

[00:24:04] Yeah.

[00:24:04] Okay.

[00:24:04] I told you, my parenting is not always 100%.

[00:24:08] No, it's great.

[00:24:09] Oh, no.

[00:24:09] I mean, you know, Justin, my son, Justin loves Goodfellas.

[00:24:13] Oh, yeah.

[00:24:13] It's a great movie.

[00:24:14] I do not know about the Christmas.

[00:24:16] I can't think of the Christmas scene in it, but there is a, yeah, there is a Christmas

[00:24:20] scene in the bar.

[00:24:22] There's a scene maybe in a bar where they pan and there might be some Christmas lighting.

[00:24:27] I'm just telling you, it came up on a list of like interesting Christmas movies.

[00:24:33] Christmas adjacent.

[00:24:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:36] Hold on.

[00:24:37] You're good.

[00:24:38] I'm Googling.

[00:24:39] I'm Googling.

[00:24:41] When talking about Christmas movies, nobody mentions Goodfellas, they say on Reddit.

[00:24:45] Okay.

[00:24:45] It is a Christmas movie without a doubt.

[00:24:48] Who else loves watching Goodfellas during Christmas?

[00:24:50] Is Goodfellas a Christmas movie?

[00:24:52] Both movies have Christmas elements in them.

[00:24:54] Yes, I'm telling you.

[00:24:56] What?

[00:24:57] What's the?

[00:24:58] What Christmas movie has gangsters in it?

[00:25:00] Goodfellas, 1990.

[00:25:03] Another classic mafia film that is clearly a holiday gym as well.

[00:25:07] There are actually several scenes set at Christmastime over the course of the movie, but the one

[00:25:12] that puts this up there with how the Grinch stole Christmas in the holiday pantheon takes

[00:25:17] place at the bar following the Lufthansa heist.

[00:25:21] This is from fanfare.hub.

[00:25:23] I don't know how reputable that is.

[00:25:25] Well, no.

[00:25:26] I mean, I was kind of thinking as a bar, and I remember one scene.

[00:25:29] Oh, they just had this big heist, and one of the gangsters bought his girlfriend like

[00:25:34] this great big mink coat, and they're like, I told you not to spend the money for Christmas.

[00:25:37] Yeah.

[00:25:37] CrimeReads.com says, and yet another Christmas movie that you forgot takes place at Christmas.

[00:25:42] Goodfellas.

[00:25:42] Okay.

[00:25:43] Okay.

[00:25:43] I'll give you that.

[00:25:44] No, I'm excited.

[00:25:45] I like it.

[00:25:45] Well, one of the interesting things about Joe Black is that he was African American, which

[00:25:51] actually, which, well, that's probably why he had the nickname, which is bad unto itself.

[00:25:56] Um, but the mob is not particularly known for, um, diversity.

[00:26:04] Wait, are you giving the mob credit for diversity?

[00:26:07] No, no.

[00:26:08] Diversity?

[00:26:10] No, I'm not.

[00:26:11] Like, I'm actually saying that this is an outlier.

[00:26:13] Like, in general, to be any type of made man, you have to have been Italian or at least

[00:26:19] have a decent amount of Italian.

[00:26:20] So, this was unusual.

[00:26:22] But either way, he, right now, he works part-time for the mob, and part-time he's a caretaker

[00:26:28] of an old, weird, historic, run-down home.

[00:26:33] He's got his side hustle.

[00:26:34] One of them was a side hustle.

[00:26:35] I don't know which one.

[00:26:36] So, not only was Joe Black associated with the mob, he was a hitman for the mob, and

[00:26:41] specifically for the Bonanno crime family.

[00:26:44] And finally, we're here at the actual crime that happened in the South.

[00:26:47] We haven't talked about the crime yet.

[00:26:48] I was wondering if we were going to get to a crime.

[00:26:50] It's a big lead-up.

[00:26:51] It's a very big lead-up.

[00:26:52] It was fascinating.

[00:26:55] So, Joe Black was given $8,000 to kill Robert McKelvey, who reportedly owed the crime

[00:27:00] organization money.

[00:27:02] I've never quite understood this thought process.

[00:27:04] Like, somebody owes you money.

[00:27:06] They don't pay, so you just kill them.

[00:27:08] Like, you're never going to get your money back.

[00:27:10] I mean, what does that do?

[00:27:11] Like, it just cost you more money to get them killed.

[00:27:14] I know.

[00:27:14] But are you trying to set an example?

[00:27:15] I don't know.

[00:27:16] I don't get it either.

[00:27:17] I'm guessing the precedent.

[00:27:19] Like, you know, there's only so long that you can handle it, and you're going to just

[00:27:26] have to go out and take them.

[00:27:27] I don't know.

[00:27:29] I think you like the mob.

[00:27:31] Do you have mob ties?

[00:27:33] Are they...

[00:27:33] I mean...

[00:27:36] Same Stoutville?

[00:27:37] Yeah, exactly.

[00:27:38] You cross me that much.

[00:27:41] I wouldn't want to cross you, Melanie.

[00:27:42] Oh.

[00:27:43] Yeah.

[00:27:44] Thank you.

[00:27:44] Welcome.

[00:27:46] So, you're right.

[00:27:48] It doesn't make any sense.

[00:27:49] But in 2005, Black and two other men lured McKelvey to Arthur Kill Road and into the

[00:27:55] sole home on the property.

[00:27:56] The men attempted to stab McKelvey, but he was able to get away.

[00:28:00] They quickly caught him and tried to strangle him, but were unsuccessful.

[00:28:04] They don't sound like great mobsters.

[00:28:06] I know.

[00:28:06] This is twice.

[00:28:07] Okay.

[00:28:07] Well, third time.

[00:28:08] Finally, they were able to subdue him long enough to drown him in a shallow pond in front

[00:28:12] of the home.

[00:28:13] Oh.

[00:28:14] Okay.

[00:28:14] Yeah.

[00:28:14] And then, I'm sorry, but his body was then cut up into pieces in the basement and put

[00:28:19] into the furnace.

[00:28:19] Oh, God.

[00:28:20] Yeah.

[00:28:21] Sorry.

[00:28:21] Did they think that would get rid of it?

[00:28:23] I guess.

[00:28:24] Did it?

[00:28:25] Kinda.

[00:28:26] Okay.

[00:28:26] Yeah.

[00:28:27] I guess I didn't think that the mob still existed in 2005.

[00:28:31] Is that just naive?

[00:28:31] They're still the mob now.

[00:28:33] Oh.

[00:28:33] Okay.

[00:28:34] Keep going.

[00:28:34] Yeah.

[00:28:34] Let's not talk about them.

[00:28:35] Okay.

[00:28:36] Okay.

[00:28:37] So, it took a year for the FBI to get involved and begin looking for Robert McKelvey, but by

[00:28:41] that time, the furnace was already gone.

[00:28:43] Well, of course it was.

[00:28:44] Like, getting rid of all this stuff.

[00:28:46] But there was still enough evidence to build a case against Joe Black and the member of the

[00:28:50] Bonanno crime family who had hired him, Gino Galstro.

[00:28:53] In 2008, Black was sentenced to life in prison while Gino was sentenced to 20 years behind

[00:28:58] bars.

[00:29:00] I mean, I do think there's this, like, common theme in many of your stories, Elena.

[00:29:04] Like, they're very macabre, especially for someone who's, like, attuned to all of these,

[00:29:09] like, vibes and haunted homes.

[00:29:11] Like, you find a lot of old houses with crimes.

[00:29:14] Yeah.

[00:29:14] I don't know.

[00:29:15] Although this is a really old house that a new crime occurred in, which is sort of different.

[00:29:20] Yeah.

[00:29:21] 2005.

[00:29:22] 2005.

[00:29:23] I don't know.

[00:29:24] If there's ever going to be a really, like, kind of creepy or somebody who's being cut

[00:29:29] up story, I mean, it is always going to be Elena.

[00:29:34] Well, and there's some that I don't talk.

[00:29:35] There's some that I have on my list.

[00:29:36] I'm like, I don't know if they're ready for that.

[00:29:38] Y'all should know, like, occasionally, Elena will text us and she's like, is this too morbid?

[00:29:42] Can I talk about this?

[00:29:43] Is it too weird?

[00:29:44] I mean, it is.

[00:29:45] You are really attracted to these stories, but yet at the same time, you are, like, very

[00:29:51] frightful of ghosts or hauntings or things like that.

[00:29:55] So, I don't know.

[00:29:56] I think you're attracted to that.

[00:29:57] That also repulses you so much.

[00:30:00] I mean, all murders repulse us.

[00:30:02] All right.

[00:30:03] But this particularly.

[00:30:05] But just so I'm clear, we've got this original Queen Anne house that was built in, like, the

[00:30:27] years.

[00:30:28] Yeah.

[00:30:29] 200 and so.

[00:30:29] How old?

[00:30:30] Can somebody do the math for me?

[00:30:32] Like, 125 years.

[00:30:33] Okay.

[00:30:33] Thank you.

[00:30:34] Fast forward 125 years, and that's when the crime here occurs.

[00:30:39] But it's a mob crime.

[00:30:41] Yeah.

[00:30:41] It's really weird.

[00:30:41] You're right.

[00:30:42] When you say it like that.

[00:30:43] Yeah.

[00:30:44] It's interesting.

[00:30:45] Because usually our stories are the opposite.

[00:30:46] It's like an old crime, and then there's new life to the house.

[00:30:50] This is just the reverse.

[00:30:51] Yeah.

[00:30:52] Yeah.

[00:30:52] But it's weird that the guy bought it in 1996 and then just didn't do anything with

[00:30:56] it for whatever reason, he didn't build that active adult community, and it just sat there,

[00:31:01] and he hired a groundskeeper to keep it for decades.

[00:31:02] He probably didn't have the funding.

[00:31:04] Could be.

[00:31:04] And wanted to, you know, so that, you know, you know that the local teens, I've seen pictures

[00:31:09] of this house.

[00:31:10] This house looks haunted, you know, even, you know, 20, 30 years ago.

[00:31:16] And, you know, the local teens would probably want to be going and breaking into it.

[00:31:20] So they probably had a groundskeeper to try and, you know, give some life and turn lights

[00:31:25] on.

[00:31:26] Right.

[00:31:26] You know, for it.

[00:31:27] Yeah.

[00:31:27] But once again, we kind of ignore the fact that this guy was murdered.

[00:31:33] You know, he might not have been a great guy, but nobody deserves to be, you know.

[00:31:37] Chopped into pieces.

[00:31:38] Yeah.

[00:31:39] And yet, the guy who killed him was sentenced to life in prison, and the guy who asked for

[00:31:45] it was only 20 years.

[00:31:46] I mean, not super long in the grand scheme of murder convictions.

[00:31:50] Right.

[00:31:51] Yeah.

[00:31:52] So since then, the home has been the site of Halloween haunted houses, music concerts,

[00:31:56] and for the filming location of many shows.

[00:31:59] Oh, another, like, theme we see sometimes.

[00:32:02] Yeah.

[00:32:03] What shows did they film there?

[00:32:04] You know that we always like a good tie-in to TV shows or movies, and Boardwalk Empire from

[00:32:13] HBO was filmed there.

[00:32:16] You know, they really played up on this haunted kind of reputation.

[00:32:21] Dr. Oz, Nick Groff's paranormal lockdown visited in the final episode of Season 1 on Destination

[00:32:29] America.

[00:32:30] Aaron Paul did a visit.

[00:32:33] It was also on Ghost Hunters.

[00:32:35] Because you know what?

[00:32:36] Unsurprisingly, there's a lot of reports of hauntings at the home.

[00:32:40] And do they think, so I'm not asking if you've researched this, but do you all know if the

[00:32:45] hauntings are the recent deaths, or do we think there have been previous deaths in addition

[00:32:50] to?

[00:32:50] What I read about was Edward, who killed himself, and his wife, which I believe Edward would

[00:32:57] haunt it, but I don't believe his wife would because she didn't die there, and like Mel

[00:33:01] said, she married someone else and moved on with her life, and so I don't think she would

[00:33:05] come back.

[00:33:05] Yeah, and that kind of is part of the tie-in to the original owners in the home, because

[00:33:10] there was a lot of the reports are kind of older, but it seems like some of the hauntings

[00:33:15] have been predating the mobster death.

[00:33:19] And yeah, you're right.

[00:33:20] Like, there was a lot about the wife, which I never understood, because I was like, why?

[00:33:25] I mean, why her?

[00:33:26] You know, she didn't die there.

[00:33:28] And then I read some about some children, maybe, and they were like, well, maybe it was

[00:33:33] like somebody who had somebody been related a long time ago.

[00:33:38] I don't know.

[00:33:39] It wasn't super, I felt like they were playing into the fact that the house just looks like

[00:33:46] a haunted house.

[00:33:47] And it does.

[00:33:47] It's creepy looking.

[00:33:49] We'll post lots of pictures.

[00:33:50] I mean, it could be cool, but yeah.

[00:33:52] Going back to the St. Anne can go creepy if it's not kept up.

[00:33:56] Well, and can I use that as a moment to plug both our website and our social medias?

[00:34:01] Because we post the best pictures there.

[00:34:03] So CrimeState.com always has all of our pictures that we talk about.

[00:34:08] And then obviously we're on Insta and Facebook.

[00:34:10] I mean, mainly mostly Insta.

[00:34:12] But if you want to see pictures of our episodes, that's where you should go.

[00:34:16] Yeah.

[00:34:17] So last year, the home and their property were on the market for $7.5 million.

[00:34:22] Okay.

[00:34:22] And Eric Bischoff and Julia Mackey bought the home and they have plans to turn it into

[00:34:27] an event space.

[00:34:29] Bischoff was quoted as saying, our plan is to separate this property from that tragic history

[00:34:34] of ghosts, suicides, and mob hits.

[00:34:36] That should no longer define this beautiful piece of land.

[00:34:39] Do you remember how much land there was with it?

[00:34:41] I mean, a lot, right?

[00:34:42] 4.5 acres.

[00:34:43] Okay.

[00:34:43] So you have the one Queen Anne house and four and a half acres.

[00:34:47] In Staten Island.

[00:34:48] Okay.

[00:34:48] I mean, actually sounds like a pretty good deal.

[00:34:51] Yeah.

[00:34:51] I mean, yeah, it looked like very pretty kind of deal.

[00:34:56] But they do have to get a lot through the planning commissions because remember, this

[00:35:02] was a historic property as well by the estate.

[00:35:09] Oh, that's right.

[00:35:10] Yeah.

[00:35:10] It was designated historic property.

[00:35:12] So there are probably a lot of rules and requirements and regulations about what they can do and not do.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:18] Yeah.

[00:35:18] And, but the gentleman who was one of the park owners, he's a local DJ, which apparently must make some good money in the DJ business and wants to, you know, use some of his experience with event space in this property.

[00:35:34] Hmm.

[00:35:34] Okay.

[00:35:35] Okay.

[00:35:36] Okay.

[00:35:36] Ready?

[00:35:37] Yeah.

[00:35:38] You want to ask it?

[00:35:39] Sure.

[00:35:39] Would you, we'll say, would you love it or list it?

[00:35:42] Wrong show.

[00:35:43] Wrong show.

[00:35:44] Trademark.