57 - The Trick or Treat Murder

[00:00:04] At the intersection of true crime and real estate, you'll find Crime Estate. I'm Heather.

[00:00:09] And my name is Elena. As real estate agents and true crime junkies, we view crimes through

[00:00:14] a different lens. So walk through the door of some of the most notorious true crimes with

[00:00:18] us and discover how sometimes the scene of the crime has its own story to tell. Halloween.

[00:00:35] That's going in. Hey, y'all. Welcome back to Crime Estate. I'm Heather, joined as always by my

[00:00:42] friend and fellow realtor, Elena, and our producer and commentator, Melanie. Hey, girls.

[00:00:46] Hey, how are you?

[00:00:48] I'm good. I'm really excited about this episode.

[00:00:51] You are?

[00:00:51] Because we have, yeah, it's a little bit spooky season here. It's almost Halloween. We're recording

[00:00:57] this like, what, four or five days before Halloween. So we're all in the spooky mode.

[00:01:02] It's going to be fun.

[00:01:04] All right. Well, before we dig into today's story, we would be remiss if we didn't first

[00:01:09] talk about maybe some of the biggest true crime news of the year that happened this week.

[00:01:16] Don't you think? Mellie, we were all on watch.

[00:01:19] Yeah. So I totally was in the office and I looked it up because you had warned me that

[00:01:26] the Menendez brothers' new kind of news announcement was occurring yesterday afternoon.

[00:01:33] And if any of you have been following the Menendez brothers, whether or not through us or through

[00:01:39] social media or the TV shows on Netflix, et cetera, the DA in the Menendez murders case

[00:01:46] just announced yesterday that there will be a new sentencing hearing for their crime. And basically,

[00:01:54] there's no doubt that the brothers murdered their parents in a horrible premeditated way. I mean,

[00:02:01] I think that is a given. I think the question here is because during the initial or at least

[00:02:07] the second law trial, they were not able to bring in evidence of the sexual crimes allegedly committed

[00:02:15] by the father on the boys and that that may have been, you know, it might have impacted their

[00:02:23] original sentence. Yes, exactly. And so now that they have been in jail for approximately 35 years

[00:02:29] with life without parole and that, you know, apparently they've been decently upstanding citizens

[00:02:35] in jail, that they will at least have a new sentencing hearing. So nothing to say that they're

[00:02:44] absolutely getting off, but there is opening the door for the possibility.

[00:02:49] Do y'all think this will have an impact on other cases?

[00:02:53] I mean, I don't know how it couldn't because it's setting some sort of precedent and a lot of law is

[00:02:59] based on the precedent of what comes before it. But I have so many questions. I asked my husband,

[00:03:05] who I think we've mentioned as an attorney, but not in this genre. It'd be like if we were like

[00:03:08] trying to tell somebody how to sell a hospital or something. And I was like, so what does this mean?

[00:03:13] He was like, it's just like, it's so weird. It's new. He's like, I, and it's California,

[00:03:20] not Texas. He's like, I have no idea how they're going to do this or what this looks like.

[00:03:25] But I have a lot of questions that I want to follow up on. I want to know,

[00:03:28] do they still have money from their parents' estate or did they blow through all of that at the

[00:03:32] trial? And if they do still have money, like, where is it? Do they get it back? Where are they

[00:03:38] going to live? If they do get out? Those are great questions.

[00:03:41] Or do they get any money or proceeds from the Netflix show? And I think there might be another

[00:03:47] show in the works too, or something like that. So I have a feeling they could probably get a little

[00:03:54] bit of money. There's some books and interviews. I don't know.

[00:03:58] Yeah. What other, do you have other questions? We need to start a list so we can just like

[00:04:02] a whole Menendez update.

[00:04:04] I just think it's fascinating on how we know so much more about that kind of abuse of children

[00:04:09] or just people in general. I just think it's fascinating. Like just how much the times change.

[00:04:16] Well, and Hebi and I were talking about it and he was like, actually they have, you know,

[00:04:21] this defense of like battered spouse or battered child is really not used as much anymore because

[00:04:29] the thought is if you had time to plan something, then you had time to get out. So maybe it's used

[00:04:35] in a snap instance, but this was obviously a planned crime.

[00:04:39] I can see that.

[00:04:40] And so, I don't know.

[00:04:43] That's why I've always had mixed emotions for this. Like, I mean, I, yeah, I, I don't know exactly

[00:04:50] how I feel about this one because I do think that they've been in jail a long time.

[00:04:55] Um, and it, there does seem to be significant evidence that they were abused or at least

[00:05:00] one of them was abused, but on the flip side, it was very premeditated.

[00:05:06] Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

[00:05:07] And they were, you know, over 18 at the time.

[00:05:11] Yeah.

[00:05:11] Looks like a second career as lawyers.

[00:05:14] No, I did not want to go back to law school.

[00:05:16] I feel like if you gave me the bar right now, I could pass it.

[00:05:23] Challenge accepted.

[00:05:24] It might be the tequila talking.

[00:05:29] There's tequila, but I know I really, I feel like that.

[00:05:33] Maybe we should give you a sample bar just for fun.

[00:05:35] That'd be fun. Yeah.

[00:05:36] Okay.

[00:05:37] Can have you take the PSAT like our kids did this week?

[00:05:40] Yeah.

[00:05:41] My son said he thought he only missed the last three questions.

[00:05:43] I love his confidence.

[00:05:46] I love his confidence.

[00:05:47] He, he is long, as long as we've known, I mean, and he, he's got the chops to, to, to,

[00:05:53] to back it up, but he is absolutely the most confident kid.

[00:05:57] And I see this from having a pretty confident kid.

[00:06:00] I know.

[00:06:02] All right.

[00:06:03] Well, not our kids, not the Menendez's.

[00:06:06] Thank goodness.

[00:06:07] And back to today's story.

[00:06:10] No, stop.

[00:06:10] But I'm just saying like today's story is really good and I think we should jump right in.

[00:06:15] Yeah.

[00:06:16] Because you're going to give it to us today, right?

[00:06:17] Yes.

[00:06:17] Okay.

[00:06:18] Perfect.

[00:06:18] Yeah.

[00:06:19] So before we dig into the meat of the story and home, I'm going to ask you about the question.

[00:06:23] Okay.

[00:06:23] Okay.

[00:06:24] It's Halloween night around 11 PM.

[00:06:26] You've turned off the porch light, which as far as I know is the universal signal on Halloween

[00:06:30] night that there's no more candy.

[00:06:32] Like don't ring my bell.

[00:06:32] For sure it is.

[00:06:33] Yeah.

[00:06:33] And you went to bed.

[00:06:34] Do you and or your hubby get out of bed to give candy to one last trick-or-treater when

[00:06:40] the bell rings?

[00:06:42] What time are we talking again?

[00:06:43] Did you say?

[00:06:44] A little after 11 PM.

[00:06:45] For sure not.

[00:06:47] Okay.

[00:06:48] I don't even think it's a trick-or-treater at 11.

[00:06:51] Right.

[00:06:53] Now, to be fair, I have maybe had 10 trick-or-treaters in my lifetime come to my house.

[00:06:59] I always live on a street without trick-or-treaters.

[00:07:01] Because it's a mile walk from the street to your front door.

[00:07:03] Right.

[00:07:04] But Melanie, I have a feeling you might be different.

[00:07:08] Do you still get trick-or-treaters at 11?

[00:07:10] Well, we have run out of candy well before 11 o'clock.

[00:07:15] And I probably have talked about it on the podcast.

[00:07:18] But if not, I live like in what you would be considering the Halloween neighborhood.

[00:07:24] And usually it's like 2,500, 3,500 trick-or-treaters.

[00:07:30] Insane.

[00:07:30] Yeah.

[00:07:31] It is crazy.

[00:07:32] And I mean, I would say a lot of houses are full-out decorating.

[00:07:36] And we used to full-out decorate.

[00:07:38] But honestly, it's not even about the decorations.

[00:07:40] It's sort of a tradition.

[00:07:42] Kids are bussed into the neighborhood.

[00:07:45] And it's out of control.

[00:07:46] I've had Japanese tourists taking pictures.

[00:07:49] I've had vendors set up shop in front of my house selling cotton candy and glow-in-the-dark sticks.

[00:07:55] I've had to call 911 before because people got into a fight over a parking space in front of my house.

[00:08:02] It is outrageous.

[00:08:04] I mean, it is.

[00:08:05] Don't get me wrong.

[00:08:06] It's a lot of fun.

[00:08:07] My kids have rarely actually done much trick-or-treating themselves because it's much more fun to be like giving out candy.

[00:08:13] Like you have a line of people coming to your house.

[00:08:16] And so that is a lot of fun.

[00:08:20] And so in my neighborhood, in kind of the old East Dallas neighborhood, they get the yellow caution tape.

[00:08:26] And they put them up on stakes in front of the houses.

[00:08:29] And I thought it was so rude when we first moved in.

[00:08:32] And then I realized, no, it's so that the kids aren't just crazy running across your lawn,

[00:08:37] that they're actually trying to walk on the sidewalk and kind of walk on the walkway, that kind of thing.

[00:08:42] But yeah, so it's a lot of fun.

[00:08:44] But yeah, we usually, if we still have candy by nine, it's unusual.

[00:08:50] And yet it drives me bonkers.

[00:08:55] And we usually give out candy later than a lot of our neighbors do.

[00:08:58] They run out before we do that somebody after 10 o'clock is ringing my door because then my dog is going crazy.

[00:09:04] Exactly.

[00:09:05] Yeah.

[00:09:05] So it's not good for anyone.

[00:09:07] Okay.

[00:09:07] So I think to answer your question, we're both a no on going to hand out candy at 11.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:11] When the doorbell rings.

[00:09:13] Right.

[00:09:13] As soon as I go to bed, I'm like, I'm done.

[00:09:14] Yeah.

[00:09:15] That's it.

[00:09:16] Well, on Halloween night in 1957, Peter Fabiano climbed out of bed and opened the door for one final time.

[00:09:22] Oh.

[00:09:23] Yeah.

[00:09:23] Okay.

[00:09:23] Betty Solomon was a divorced mother of two when she and Peter Fabiano met.

[00:09:28] So I'm saying mother of two, but some sources stated that she only had one child.

[00:09:32] Yeah.

[00:09:33] Most of what I read said too.

[00:09:34] Yeah.

[00:09:34] It's kind of one of those fuzzy old stories.

[00:09:37] Her ex-husband was a pharmacist.

[00:09:39] And so it is said that she was accustomed to a nicer lifestyle.

[00:09:42] Peter, an ex-Marine and Betty met when they were in their late twenties and after a brief courtship married.

[00:09:48] After working as a truck driver, Peter realized that he had a knack for cutting and styling hair,

[00:09:53] which I think is super cool for a World War II vet to just discover that he's really good at this.

[00:10:00] Yeah.

[00:10:00] He would think he would discover he was really good at welding.

[00:10:04] Right.

[00:10:06] Or wielding a knife.

[00:10:08] I mean, hey.

[00:10:09] Or scissors.

[00:10:09] You had to have barbers back then too.

[00:10:12] That's true.

[00:10:12] Yeah, that's true.

[00:10:13] That's true.

[00:10:13] But not quite maybe the lifestyle that Betty was used to if she was married to a pharmacist

[00:10:20] to go to a truck driver and new hairdresser.

[00:10:23] Right.

[00:10:24] Yeah.

[00:10:24] And I think some reports said that she encouraged him to like do good things.

[00:10:29] Okay, but his last name is Fabiano.

[00:10:32] Yeah.

[00:10:34] So what else could you do?

[00:10:35] That's pretty good.

[00:10:35] Yeah.

[00:10:36] What else could you do?

[00:10:36] You could be a calendar.

[00:10:38] Not a truck driver.

[00:10:39] No, you could be like a model for calendars.

[00:10:41] Oh, okay.

[00:10:42] I like that.

[00:10:42] With Fabiano?

[00:10:43] Yeah.

[00:10:44] It's a model's name for sure.

[00:10:45] Yeah.

[00:10:45] I love it.

[00:10:46] In 1956, Betty and her one to two children, Ann Peter, moved from their home in Kingston,

[00:10:51] New York to LA where they proceeded to open a few salons.

[00:10:54] Oh, that seems like a good place to be a hairdresser.

[00:10:56] Oh, yeah.

[00:10:56] Totally.

[00:10:57] They totally read the market.

[00:10:58] So in the 1950s, ladies were still getting their hair set on a weekly basis.

[00:11:02] I'd imagine this would be a pretty lucrative career for the family.

[00:11:06] Yeah, that would be the life.

[00:11:07] I think I've told y'all I really want one of those Judy Jetson machines that does your

[00:11:11] hair for you.

[00:11:12] I really hope that you get that one day.

[00:11:13] I do too.

[00:11:14] I'm going to be so old I won't care by then, but I have a little bit of a confession to

[00:11:20] make though.

[00:11:20] Oh, go ahead.

[00:11:22] So I think I've mentioned I haven't had a sense of smell in like 20 years.

[00:11:27] And one day, several years ago, I was blow drying my hair and I got a text message from

[00:11:33] a client, which I immediately responded to because I'm a very good real estate agent.

[00:11:36] Yeah, you're very punctual.

[00:11:36] Thank you very much.

[00:11:38] And when I stopped responding and took my roll brush and pulled it away from my hair, all

[00:11:43] my hair came with it.

[00:11:45] And I had this massive hole in my hair.

[00:11:50] Luckily, it was not the top layer.

[00:11:52] I could do a piece of hair over it and it sort of covered it up.

[00:11:56] But for about six months until that grew out, I went every week to the hair salon and had

[00:12:01] my hair blown out.

[00:12:02] If y'all want to see pictures of this, we'll post it on social media.

[00:12:04] I don't have a picture of the...

[00:12:07] I know.

[00:12:07] But I would go to Drybar.

[00:12:09] Love you, Drybar.

[00:12:10] If you would like to sponsor this episode, you can.

[00:12:12] And I would sit with my laptop and answer emails for an hour and have my hair beautifully

[00:12:17] blown out.

[00:12:17] And I gained like 20 pounds that year because I wouldn't go to the gym because I didn't want

[00:12:21] to ruin my good hair.

[00:12:24] Was it like a hot roller that you burned it?

[00:12:27] No, it was like a big roll brush.

[00:12:29] And so I just had it like pulled back to, I don't know, set the curl or whatever.

[00:12:34] That must have been...

[00:12:35] It was awful.

[00:12:36] But you know, most people would start to notice that their hair was burning because of the

[00:12:41] smell.

[00:12:42] Apparently, it's a very distinctive smell.

[00:12:44] Gotcha.

[00:12:45] I didn't notice that.

[00:12:46] Yikes.

[00:12:47] And the smoke didn't...

[00:12:48] I've never told you this story.

[00:12:49] No.

[00:12:49] No.

[00:12:50] I mean, I knew about the smell, but not the...

[00:12:52] Yeah.

[00:12:53] That's wild.

[00:12:54] Yeah.

[00:12:54] There's definitely pictures floating around somewhere.

[00:12:57] Maybe.

[00:12:58] Maybe.

[00:12:59] I'm going to dig them up.

[00:13:00] So I would have been at their salon for sure.

[00:13:03] Yeah, totally.

[00:13:04] I mean, if you think about it, people back then, I mean, I went to the salons a lot.

[00:13:10] I mean, like the weekly blowout, the set was very, very common for middle class America.

[00:13:16] Ladies, my Aunt Jane just retired from like 60 years of being a hairdresser in Kentucky.

[00:13:23] Love Aunt Jane.

[00:13:23] I mean, I never had like a professional haircut until I was 19 and we moved away from Kentucky

[00:13:28] because she always did it.

[00:13:29] I mean, she was professional, but like she didn't charge me.

[00:13:34] But she was so worried retiring because she was like, who's going to do all my little old

[00:13:38] lady's hair every week?

[00:13:39] Oh, I love that.

[00:13:39] They've been coming to me for 40 years.

[00:13:41] I don't want them to have to find a new hairdresser at 82.

[00:13:45] I love that.

[00:13:45] I mean, I love my hairdresser, but he doesn't know how to set.

[00:13:48] I mean, like, you know, he's a, you know, trendy Dallas, you know, hairdresser.

[00:13:52] He's not setting the 80 year old woman's, you know, small town America hair.

[00:13:56] I'm telling you it is the way to go.

[00:13:58] It is a good use of your time.

[00:14:00] Fourth career.

[00:14:02] Yeah.

[00:14:02] Small town.

[00:14:03] You'd be a great hairdresser.

[00:14:04] I really want you to teach me to do makeup too.

[00:14:06] Your makeup is always going to point.

[00:14:08] I don't have a stitch of makeup on right now.

[00:14:09] Yeah.

[00:14:10] Not today, but.

[00:14:10] Well, it's good for you.

[00:14:11] We haven't started videotaping the.

[00:14:13] But maybe 2025.

[00:14:14] 2025.

[00:14:15] It's coming, y'all.

[00:14:17] Okay.

[00:14:18] So in LA, the family moved into 13226 Community Street in Sun Valley, California.

[00:14:25] The house is modest if we were comparing it to a lot of the other properties we've covered,

[00:14:29] especially in California.

[00:14:30] But I think most of us would find it a pretty standard upper middle class home.

[00:14:35] Four bedrooms, two baths, 1,738 square feet.

[00:14:38] It was built in 1955.

[00:14:40] And this was a typical post-World War II cottage.

[00:14:43] So yeah, I mean, there was a huge housing boom after World War II.

[00:14:48] I think for a couple of different reasons.

[00:14:50] Number one, we stopped building houses during the war because we needed the people, the

[00:14:56] manpower and the supplies for war related efforts, right?

[00:15:01] And so then supply and demand, you have a couple of years where homes aren't being built.

[00:15:07] And then you have all these GIs coming back and there are, you know, all these affordable

[00:15:11] loan program options coming out trying to help them be homeowners.

[00:15:15] So there was a huge post-World War II building boom.

[00:15:19] Yeah, totally.

[00:15:19] And we also had the baby boom.

[00:15:21] Baby boom.

[00:15:22] During that time.

[00:15:24] The resulted, sorry, resulted from the vets returning home for more.

[00:15:28] And yeah, a lot was going on during that time.

[00:15:31] Yeah.

[00:15:31] And just to set the stage, we're, Sudden Valley is in the San Fernando Valley.

[00:15:38] So once again, not coincidentally in the LA region.

[00:15:43] Sorry, we love our Southern California listeners.

[00:15:45] But there's a lot.

[00:15:46] Wait, maybe if there were not so many crimes committed in California, we wouldn't have so

[00:15:50] many stories to cover.

[00:15:50] It's really big.

[00:15:51] There's a lot of people there.

[00:15:53] There's a lot of people.

[00:15:54] It's a big area.

[00:15:55] And maybe there just might be a lot of crime.

[00:15:58] But love our San Fernando guys.

[00:16:01] But yeah, so just wanted to kind of set the stage.

[00:16:04] This is in the valley, which was, you know, burgeoning, you know, community.

[00:16:09] Lots of homes being built.

[00:16:11] Lots of people being moved there after World War II.

[00:16:14] And we are, for those in familiar, we're just kind of northwest of Burbank and Burbank Airport.

[00:16:24] Yeah.

[00:16:25] And so I also looked up some people from San Fernando Valley region who were on the list

[00:16:31] of notable people.

[00:16:32] And per Wikipedia, listen to this list.

[00:16:34] There's Skylar DeLeon, who's a former actor and convicted murderer.

[00:16:39] Oh, did he or she have a great house?

[00:16:41] I don't know.

[00:16:42] I was like, oh, this is, I would just know to like, this is really weird people from this

[00:16:47] area.

[00:16:48] Got it.

[00:16:48] Keep going.

[00:16:48] There's Amber Rain, R-A-Y-N-E, who was an American porn actor.

[00:16:53] Oh.

[00:16:54] Yeah.

[00:16:54] The valley is known for the porn industry.

[00:16:57] No, wait.

[00:16:58] Is it really?

[00:16:58] Oh, yeah.

[00:16:59] I didn't know that.

[00:16:59] Oh, okay.

[00:17:00] I didn't know that.

[00:17:01] Well, then I'm already reading ahead to the next person on your list.

[00:17:05] Yeah.

[00:17:05] I wonder how he felt about that.

[00:17:06] John F. MacArthur, who's a pastor and author.

[00:17:10] Yeah.

[00:17:11] Maybe he felt like there were lives to be saved there.

[00:17:12] How do you know that about San Fernando Valley?

[00:17:15] You just know a little bit about a lot of things.

[00:17:17] Yes.

[00:17:18] Okay.

[00:17:18] Yes.

[00:17:19] But no, I mean, movies.

[00:17:22] My brother lives in the valley.

[00:17:24] Oh.

[00:17:25] Oh.

[00:17:26] Okay.

[00:17:26] Yeah.

[00:17:27] But let's just be, you know, to keep it real here.

[00:17:29] This is like more like original valley area.

[00:17:32] Like, you know, my brother lives like Calabasas.

[00:17:35] You know, so we're.

[00:17:37] That's like the Kardashians, right?

[00:17:38] Okay.

[00:17:39] But that's still the valley.

[00:17:40] I love Mel's California knowledge.

[00:17:42] One day we're going to take a crime estate California trip.

[00:17:45] Let's go.

[00:17:46] I'm ready.

[00:17:46] You don't have to cross an ocean to get there.

[00:17:48] I'm in.

[00:17:48] No passport needed.

[00:17:49] Yeah.

[00:17:49] No passport needed.

[00:17:50] No ocean.

[00:17:51] Yeah.

[00:17:51] They speak English.

[00:17:53] So let's go.

[00:17:54] At least as well as we do in Texas.

[00:17:56] Yeah.

[00:17:56] Exactly.

[00:17:57] So it was in LA that the two met and befriended Joan, and I'm going to say it, rebel.

[00:18:02] I probably will say it wrong.

[00:18:05] By the way, I'm going to, I'm going to pronounce it different ways.

[00:18:07] But it's spelled R-A-B-E-L.

[00:18:09] Correct.

[00:18:09] Yes.

[00:18:10] So it could be Rabel.

[00:18:10] It could be Rebel.

[00:18:11] Rabel.

[00:18:11] I don't know.

[00:18:12] Yeah.

[00:18:13] Joan.

[00:18:15] Joan.

[00:18:33] So close in fact that when Betty and Peter started having trouble in their marriage,

[00:18:36] Betty moved in with Joan.

[00:18:39] Oh, well, that sounds like a nice friendship.

[00:18:41] It is.

[00:18:41] And though, I don't feel like if I were having marital problems, and we're all very close

[00:18:48] friends.

[00:18:48] If I were having marital problems, I think I would not involve you guys.

[00:18:53] I would tell you guys.

[00:18:54] I would tell y'all.

[00:18:55] No, I would be so mad at you if you had to move out and did not move in here.

[00:18:59] Well, I would go to a hotel.

[00:19:02] Aaron, I love you so much.

[00:19:03] We're not having you.

[00:19:03] But I would disclose everything.

[00:19:06] I would tell you guys everything.

[00:19:07] But I think I would just go to a hotel.

[00:19:08] That would make me so mad.

[00:19:10] I would come and get you from that hotel and physically move you back to my house.

[00:19:14] Why are you paying for a hotel?

[00:19:16] There is a guest room.

[00:19:17] Go sleep in it.

[00:19:18] Well, I mean, that's true.

[00:19:19] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:19:20] My head is nodding in agreement.

[00:19:22] Yeah, that's true.

[00:19:22] That's true.

[00:19:23] But I appreciate you not wanting Aaron to show up knocking on our door at 2 a.m.

[00:19:28] Well, it's not that.

[00:19:28] But our spouses are friends, so I wouldn't want it to be like, I don't know.

[00:19:33] But see, they were all friends too, which I guess is where you're going with this.

[00:19:36] Right.

[00:19:36] Maybe.

[00:19:36] Yeah.

[00:19:37] Well, maybe.

[00:19:39] So there's not a lot written about their friendship, but the Los Angeles Times newspaper

[00:19:43] in 1957 described their relationship as, quote, abnormal and alluded to the fact.

[00:19:49] Well, I shouldn't say to the fact.

[00:19:50] They alluded to the woman having a romantic relationship.

[00:19:54] And it was in 1957, according to vice.com, using the euphemism abnormal was as close

[00:20:00] to printing the word homosexual as a major newspaper would come.

[00:20:04] Well, yeah.

[00:20:05] And I mean, this is California.

[00:20:06] A lot has certainly changed there, right?

[00:20:08] Like we certainly here in Texas think of them as very liberal and on the forefront of social

[00:20:15] issues.

[00:20:17] But again, 1957, I mean, we did a little fact checking.

[00:20:21] Like it was still against the law to be homosexual in California at the time.

[00:20:25] So, you know, even if they were certain that they were in a relationship, had they printed

[00:20:32] it, the women could have been in trouble for that.

[00:20:34] Right.

[00:20:34] Absolutely.

[00:20:35] Absolutely.

[00:20:35] Or it was just a woman who is being defiant and moving in with a friend because a friend

[00:20:44] was giving her a place to stay.

[00:20:46] And, you know, people are reading into it wrongly.

[00:20:48] I mean, who knows?

[00:20:49] Who knows what's going on there?

[00:20:51] Yeah, totally.

[00:20:52] Yeah.

[00:20:52] And for those of you like following the timeline here, it wasn't until 1976 that same-sex

[00:20:58] sexual activity became legal in California.

[00:21:00] So what?

[00:21:01] Another 20 years?

[00:21:03] Yeah.

[00:21:03] Yeah.

[00:21:03] All good things must come to an end.

[00:21:05] And for unknown reasons, Betty decided to give her relationship with Peter another chance.

[00:21:09] And he agreed.

[00:21:10] But he told her he wanted her to have nothing to do with Joan moving forward and she was

[00:21:15] not to even utter her name.

[00:21:17] Oh.

[00:21:17] Oh.

[00:21:18] Yeah.

[00:21:18] So presumably Joan's not still working at the salon.

[00:21:21] And he fired her.

[00:21:22] Okay.

[00:21:22] Yes.

[00:21:23] And he fired her.

[00:21:24] Good for him for doing that.

[00:21:26] I would have a really hard time with that.

[00:21:28] A really hard time with that.

[00:21:29] Look, that says to me that he knew they were in a relationship.

[00:21:33] Because-

[00:21:33] Or, playing devil's advocate, it says to you that she's being a good friend and is supporting

[00:21:39] her friend in an abusive relationship.

[00:21:43] Who's to say?

[00:21:44] Yeah.

[00:21:45] Or he could just think she's a bad influence.

[00:21:48] I'm using air quotes, bad influence.

[00:21:50] You all both make valid points.

[00:21:53] I think mine's more accurate.

[00:21:54] But that's fine.

[00:21:55] You do make valid points.

[00:21:58] And she did that though.

[00:21:59] So, she cut ties with Joan and began to work on her marriage with Peter.

[00:22:03] That didn't sit well with Joan and she started plotting and planning a way to get back at

[00:22:07] Peter.

[00:22:07] Oh.

[00:22:08] Well, maybe Melanie's theory is running a little more.

[00:22:10] Could be.

[00:22:11] Could be.

[00:22:11] Solid now.

[00:22:12] Okay.

[00:22:12] And so, here we are, Halloween night, 1954.

[00:22:16] And a little after 11 p.m.

[00:22:18] When all those cute little trick-or-treaters should have been home snug in their beds, the

[00:22:21] doorbell rang at 13236 Community Street.

[00:22:25] I like that name, Community Street.

[00:22:26] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:28] According to an article on derangedlacrimes.com.

[00:22:34] Which is the best website ever, by the way.

[00:22:35] So reputable.

[00:22:36] I think we just need to, I mean, we could change our whole podcast to just be whatever.

[00:22:41] Yeah.

[00:22:41] I love it.

[00:22:42] I love it.

[00:22:42] LACrimes.com print.

[00:22:45] Peter got out of his bed and went to the door.

[00:22:47] Betty heard him say yes.

[00:22:49] Then he said, isn't it a little late for this?

[00:22:51] She heard but didn't recognize two other adult voices.

[00:22:55] One sounded masculine and the other like a man impersonating a woman.

[00:22:59] Interesting.

[00:22:59] Yeah.

[00:23:00] Then Betty heard a noise that, quote, sounded like a pop.

[00:23:03] The noise brought her and daughter, 15-year-old Judy, out of bed in a hurry.

[00:23:07] They ran to their front door where they found Peter lying on his back just inside the

[00:23:11] doorway, wounded from a single gunshot to the heart.

[00:23:15] Betty waited with Peter as Judy ran to Bud Alper's house, a neighbor who happened to

[00:23:20] be a police officer with the LAPD.

[00:23:22] Oh, you gotta love a police officer neighbor.

[00:23:24] That is always good for the neighborhood.

[00:23:25] Totally.

[00:23:26] For sure.

[00:23:27] So when authorities arrived, Peter was transported to the hospital and died.

[00:23:30] According to coroner reports, he died instantly.

[00:23:33] The LAPD began to piece together what could have happened and were able to determine

[00:23:37] that this was a targeted attack and not a random act of violence because there

[00:23:40] was no robbery and no spent shells.

[00:23:43] Oh, interesting.

[00:23:44] Okay.

[00:23:45] As is with murder investigations, people looked at the family first as possible suspects.

[00:23:50] But after interviews with friends and family of the Fabianos, there was no known angst

[00:23:54] among the couple that could have led to a motive.

[00:23:56] Police even looked into criminal activity that Peter could have had that resulted in his

[00:24:00] execution.

[00:24:01] But he was clean except for a misdemeanor charge for bookmaking several years prior.

[00:24:05] Wait, wait, wait.

[00:24:06] We've got another bookmaker?

[00:24:07] Another bookmaker.

[00:24:08] Yeah.

[00:24:09] That was a term we had never heard before.

[00:24:11] Before Doris.

[00:24:13] Doris.

[00:24:14] Doris Angleton.

[00:24:14] In Houston Oaks.

[00:24:15] River.

[00:24:16] No.

[00:24:17] River Oaks, Houston.

[00:24:18] Yeah.

[00:24:18] Yeah.

[00:24:18] So he's a bookie.

[00:24:19] He's a bookie.

[00:24:20] He's a bookie.

[00:24:23] According to reports, Betty was the first to shine a light on Joan Rebell.

[00:24:28] And I don't know if that's how I said it previously, but Joan.

[00:24:30] Yes.

[00:24:30] Good job.

[00:24:31] Okay.

[00:24:31] She told police that she hated her well-regarded and well-respected husband.

[00:24:36] When police began to question Joan, she seemingly had a pretty tight alibi.

[00:24:40] She was at home and claimed this could have easily been confirmed by neighbors who would

[00:24:44] have seen her car in the driveway all night.

[00:24:46] This seemed plausible until a neighbor stepped forward and admitted that Joan's car was in

[00:24:51] the driveway all night, but that was only because she borrowed her car to go to the

[00:24:54] grocery store.

[00:24:55] Oh, wait.

[00:24:56] She didn't tell her neighbors like, hey, don't tell the police I borrowed your car.

[00:25:00] Yeah.

[00:25:01] All right.

[00:25:03] Also, what a shitty friend.

[00:25:05] Borrow your car to commit a murder?

[00:25:07] I know.

[00:25:08] Yeah.

[00:25:09] Doing anything illegal.

[00:25:10] And shout out to you because at the party this weekend, you're letting me borrow your

[00:25:14] outdoor furniture.

[00:25:15] I appreciate that.

[00:25:15] You're so welcome.

[00:25:16] I told you as long as I didn't have to deliver it, you were welcome anytime.

[00:25:19] Just no murders committed at your party, please.

[00:25:22] On my furniture.

[00:25:23] I mean, I don't know.

[00:25:24] I mean, no.

[00:25:25] I'm not planning on it.

[00:25:27] It is a demon disco.

[00:25:28] It's a dead disco.

[00:25:29] Dead disco.

[00:25:32] So, it really gets worse for Joan from here.

[00:25:34] The neighbor also reported to police that when she received her car back, the odometer

[00:25:39] showed that 37 miles had been put on the car.

[00:25:41] Wait.

[00:25:41] Stop.

[00:25:42] How did she know this?

[00:25:43] Who's tracking their odometer?

[00:25:45] I'm not.

[00:25:45] If you ask me right now, excuse me, no idea.

[00:25:48] I mean, Mr. Taxman, I do write down my...

[00:25:50] Oh.

[00:25:51] Oh.

[00:25:51] Sure.

[00:25:52] Oh, me too.

[00:25:52] For that.

[00:25:53] But not for just like a trip to the grocery store.

[00:25:55] That's crazy.

[00:25:56] Maybe she was a crappy friend too.

[00:25:59] She's like, okay, when she left, she had this...

[00:26:01] I had this many miles in it.

[00:26:02] I'm going to charge her for this 0.27.

[00:26:04] Maybe.

[00:26:06] Tank of gas.

[00:26:06] Right.

[00:26:08] So, the grocery store was much closer to the neighborhood than that.

[00:26:11] So, the police questioned Joan about it and she told him that she was at her favorite grocery

[00:26:15] store that was not as close.

[00:26:17] That was one does.

[00:26:19] I get that.

[00:26:20] I mean, yeah.

[00:26:21] Me too.

[00:26:22] But...

[00:26:23] I'm not going 37 miles out of my way.

[00:26:25] I mean, don't get me wrong.

[00:26:26] I love a central market, but I am not going out of my way.

[00:26:29] I mean, that's like 15 plus miles to the grocery store.

[00:26:32] How many did she pass between here and there?

[00:26:33] Exactly.

[00:26:34] And I'm taking my own car.

[00:26:36] Yeah.

[00:26:38] Joan doesn't strike me as the brightest bulb in the kit.

[00:26:42] She's interesting.

[00:26:43] Very interesting.

[00:26:44] Keep going.

[00:26:45] So, while all that seemed super suspicious, police were lacking one little thing that they

[00:26:50] needed to arrest Joan.

[00:26:51] Physical evidence.

[00:26:52] Oh, yeah.

[00:26:53] That pesky little thing.

[00:26:54] Yeah.

[00:26:55] Yeah.

[00:26:55] Yeah.

[00:26:56] Guess what, though?

[00:26:56] They finally received that pesky evidence when an anonymous tip came into police telling

[00:27:00] them to check the lockers at a nearby department store for the murder weapon.

[00:27:05] Wait.

[00:27:05] Hold on.

[00:27:06] Lockers at the department store?

[00:27:08] This was a different time.

[00:27:11] Mid-50s, right?

[00:27:12] Yes.

[00:27:12] I could go to the department store and store my stuff and, like, I could shop to, like,

[00:27:18] dropped and put it all in a locker.

[00:27:20] I mean, I've heard of lockers, like, at the bus or train station, but not at the...

[00:27:26] Yeah.

[00:27:27] I am so happy this does not exist today because I do have a rule that once you can no longer

[00:27:33] carry your purchases, you're done shopping.

[00:27:35] Oh, is that your rule?

[00:27:36] Oh, for sure.

[00:27:37] Okay.

[00:27:37] Yeah.

[00:27:38] Because, look, in this day and age, I'm not taking my purchases to the car and locking

[00:27:42] them in there and then going back.

[00:27:43] Yeah.

[00:27:43] So, that has saved me money.

[00:27:47] Melanie's laughing because I am a notorious shopper.

[00:27:49] You could do major damage with lockers.

[00:27:51] If only there was some sort of similar rule about Amazon packages.

[00:27:56] Oh, yeah, that's true.

[00:28:00] That laugh.

[00:28:03] I got away with it for a while because we were building a house.

[00:28:06] And I was like, oh, it's for the house.

[00:28:06] Oh, she did use to say that.

[00:28:08] Okay.

[00:28:09] And now every time Melanie comes, she's like, this house is done.

[00:28:11] What are you still doing?

[00:28:12] Yes.

[00:28:14] I think we can...

[00:28:15] Wait, pause.

[00:28:16] Yeah.

[00:28:16] I did have to open my own bank account for Amazon just because I was spending so much money

[00:28:21] on Amazon that I was like, I need to know where it's going.

[00:28:23] So, I would put, like, X amount every month into that one account and I would run Amazon

[00:28:28] through it.

[00:28:29] What in the world?

[00:28:31] Hey, I think this is a good financial tip for people, personally.

[00:28:36] Yeah, Jason got mad at me.

[00:28:38] Oh, we could cut this.

[00:28:41] Because our Amazon goes to, like, my personal or our family personal Amex.

[00:28:47] And, you know, he's like, oh, you know, we're caught up with bills.

[00:28:51] And then I'm like, oh, yeah, I think, you know, a few hundred or so to Amex.

[00:28:56] He's like, why are you using Amex?

[00:28:58] And I'm like, oh, it's just automatic.

[00:29:01] It's coming out of Amazon.

[00:29:02] He's like, change it.

[00:29:04] Change it.

[00:29:04] I think any excuse for using the credit card is, it's for points.

[00:29:07] It's for points.

[00:29:08] Yeah, this one really isn't for points.

[00:29:10] Oh, damn it.

[00:29:10] This was just, yeah, that's a good idea.

[00:29:12] All right.

[00:29:12] I did send my husband a text today.

[00:29:15] I'm sure he appreciates these random texts during his work day.

[00:29:17] I was like, you have $282 on REI rewards.

[00:29:21] Maybe you could use that for Christmas gifts.

[00:29:23] He's like, how did we earn $281?

[00:29:25] I mean, who knows?

[00:29:26] I don't know.

[00:29:28] So I feel like in regard to the lockers, I think as middle-aged women walking around the

[00:29:32] mall, we would all appreciate this.

[00:29:34] It's really in the holidays.

[00:29:35] There's so many people and it's hot in there.

[00:29:37] And if I could just throw my coat.

[00:29:38] You could put in a change of shoes.

[00:29:39] Oh my.

[00:29:40] We're bringing this back.

[00:29:42] It could be amazing.

[00:29:43] I feel like Nordstrom would totally be on board with like a concierge locker of some sort

[00:29:48] where you could just drop your stuff off.

[00:29:51] Heather, that is genius.

[00:29:52] Well, if Nordstrom would like to hire me for all their marketing.

[00:29:56] All right.

[00:29:57] So she goes to the mall and puts a gun in a locker.

[00:30:01] Correct.

[00:30:02] Yeah.

[00:30:02] So when police follow the tip, they check the lockers.

[00:30:04] They found a 38 special.

[00:30:06] I have no idea what that is, but it's a 38 special that they were able to trace back

[00:30:10] to 43-year-old Golden Pizer.

[00:30:14] Oh, okay.

[00:30:15] We haven't heard about Golden Pizer yet.

[00:30:16] No.

[00:30:17] This story, right?

[00:30:17] I want to spell her name.

[00:30:18] G-O-L-D-Y-N-E.

[00:30:20] So it could be like Goldeen.

[00:30:22] Goldeen.

[00:30:22] I think I like that, but I'm going to say Goldeen.

[00:30:24] I do too.

[00:30:24] When Goldeen was called down to the police station, she reportedly stated, quote, it's

[00:30:29] a relief to get it off my mind.

[00:30:31] And it was an anonymous tip, but I feel like she did it.

[00:30:34] I feel like she called the tip in on herself.

[00:30:36] Oh, you think?

[00:30:37] Because listen to this.

[00:30:38] She stated that her longtime friend, Joan Rebell, had convinced her to kill Peter

[00:30:43] after having planned it for three months.

[00:30:45] She stated, quote, all we talked about was Peter Fabiano.

[00:30:48] Joan described him as a vile, evil man, one who destroyed all the people around him.

[00:30:53] I developed a deep hatred for him.

[00:30:56] Oh, that's sad.

[00:30:57] Yeah, totally.

[00:30:59] Goldeen went on to relay to officers that she purchased the gun from a Pasadena gun shop,

[00:31:04] telling the owner that she needed it for home protection.

[00:31:08] I'm so curious.

[00:31:09] So this is early 1950s.

[00:31:11] I'm actually surprised women could buy guns.

[00:31:13] Now that you've mentioned that, that is odd.

[00:31:15] I mean, there were a lot of things.

[00:31:18] She probably couldn't have had her own credit card at the time.

[00:31:20] Yeah, you're absolutely right.

[00:31:21] Okay.

[00:31:21] Keep going.

[00:31:22] Interesting.

[00:31:22] Interesting.

[00:31:22] Okay.

[00:31:23] So she went back a few days later to pick the gun up, but it was Joan who drove her and

[00:31:27] paid for it.

[00:31:28] The gun had two bullets loaded in it, and they did not purchase more, which already is suspicious.

[00:31:33] Like for home protection, you only need two bullets, right?

[00:31:36] Yeah.

[00:31:37] Yeah.

[00:31:37] So on that fateful Halloween night, Joan picked up Goldeen with costumes for them to put on.

[00:31:42] Blue jeans, khaki jackets, hats, eye masks, like little 1950s style Batman eye masks.

[00:31:51] Oh, interesting.

[00:31:52] Yeah.

[00:31:53] With their khaki jackets.

[00:31:54] Yes.

[00:31:54] Makeup and red gloves.

[00:31:56] I don't know what they were supposed to be.

[00:31:57] I was going to ask.

[00:31:58] Yeah.

[00:31:58] Were they supposed to be Halloween or was this just murder?

[00:32:01] It was supposed to be Halloween.

[00:32:03] Okay.

[00:32:03] I think the thought was they were taking advantage of trick-or-treaters and costumes.

[00:32:06] Well, yeah, but I'm trying to, I think what we're really asking is were they going

[00:32:09] for a specific look or were they just like trying to disguise themselves?

[00:32:13] It was the late 50s.

[00:32:14] I don't know.

[00:32:14] I don't know what they did.

[00:32:15] I don't know.

[00:32:15] Maybe that was a kid.

[00:32:16] I don't know.

[00:32:17] All right.

[00:32:17] Yeah.

[00:32:18] So the two women drove to 13236 Community Street and they arrived around 9 p.m.

[00:32:24] They waited in the car until they saw the lights go out in the home and then Goldeen approached

[00:32:28] the door.

[00:32:29] She had to ring the bell two times before it was answered.

[00:32:32] And when Peter opened the door, Goldeen, two hands clasping the gun with outstretched

[00:32:36] arms, fired a single shot into his chest.

[00:32:39] Goldeen ran back and the two sped away in that borrowed car.

[00:32:42] After dropping the car back off at the neighbor's house, Goldeen was quoted as saying, we left

[00:32:46] the car on the street, separated and walked to our homes.

[00:32:49] Joan said, forget you ever saw me.

[00:32:53] So two things come to mind here.

[00:32:55] One, I'd forgotten we were talking about Halloween when she borrowed the car.

[00:32:58] That's really random.

[00:32:59] Like, hey, can I borrow your car to go to the grocery store on Halloween?

[00:33:03] That's weird.

[00:33:03] And then two, like, do you think Joan was just this master manipulator who had taught

[00:33:08] Goldeen into doing what she wanted to do but didn't want to be accused of?

[00:33:13] I kind of thought about that.

[00:33:15] I kind of mulled it over when I was researching and not to speak ill of Goldeen, although she

[00:33:22] murdered someone.

[00:33:23] I think she was just really gullible.

[00:33:26] Like, I think she was just super duper gullible and naive and maybe not.

[00:33:31] Well, and look, I'm not going to murder somebody for you.

[00:33:34] But if for three months you had been telling me how evil somebody was and you're like, I

[00:33:39] just need to get away from them, would I help you leave them?

[00:33:42] For sure.

[00:33:42] You know, like, for three months all you told me was how horrible Aaron was to you and

[00:33:48] you just couldn't.

[00:33:49] I don't feel like you'd believe me.

[00:33:50] Well, I wouldn't because your husband is an angel.

[00:33:54] But, you know, for three months they say like repetition is something that like you intrinsically

[00:34:00] start to believe what you hear over and over again.

[00:34:04] You can start to believe your own lies.

[00:34:07] And so I get how she could be manipulated that easily.

[00:34:11] Yeah, for sure.

[00:34:13] So soon after their arrest, Goldeen and Joan hired two separate lawyers and police held

[00:34:17] a face-to-face meeting with the two former friends and their attorneys.

[00:34:20] Goldeen Pazier was quoted as saying, she told me that Mr. Fabiano mistreated his wife and

[00:34:24] that he was dealing narcotics.

[00:34:26] So it sounded like she was just ready to like get everything off her chest.

[00:34:29] Right.

[00:34:29] Which is why I feel like she was in the anonymous tip.

[00:34:32] You think, oh, you think it was right?

[00:34:33] I feel like, I feel like she just like unloaded.

[00:34:35] And she said even more when she went to trial.

[00:34:37] So, I mean, okay.

[00:34:39] I can feel you because who else would know?

[00:34:41] That's what I'm thinking.

[00:34:43] Okay.

[00:34:43] That's what I'm thinking.

[00:34:45] So the judge in the case ordered three psychiatrists to examine the women to ensure they were fit

[00:34:49] to stay in trial.

[00:34:50] Goldeen told one of them, quote, I had no motive personally.

[00:34:54] Whatever motive I had was to please Joan.

[00:34:56] I was always easily influenced.

[00:34:58] I've been impressionable and always trusting.

[00:35:01] And that kind of makes me feel bad.

[00:35:02] But also I read reports that that's not like normal for a psychiatrist to be called to make

[00:35:08] sure these people were deemed fit to stay in trial.

[00:35:11] But because there was this possible lesbian relationship and it was frowned upon.

[00:35:17] And it was like a psychotic disorder probably at the time.

[00:35:21] Actually, and I didn't research this.

[00:35:23] I probably should have.

[00:35:23] But I also read that at one point it was in the whatever psychiatrist used.

[00:35:29] Yes.

[00:35:30] It was homosexuality was listed in there.

[00:35:33] I don't know if that's accurate or not.

[00:35:35] I don't either.

[00:35:35] I don't either.

[00:35:36] Yeah.

[00:35:36] That's something I should have looked at.

[00:35:39] We'll fact check that.

[00:35:40] Yeah.

[00:35:41] If we're wrong, we'll make a note of it in the show notes.

[00:35:43] I'm not saying either way.

[00:35:43] I'm just saying that's just something that I saw on the internet.

[00:35:47] My only thought in that is, I think what version of that are we on?

[00:35:51] This was my background.

[00:35:53] This is my degree in school.

[00:35:54] But they don't change that very often.

[00:35:57] We're on like version four or five or something.

[00:36:00] Yeah.

[00:36:00] Anyway, that'd be interesting.

[00:36:01] Yeah.

[00:36:01] Yeah.

[00:36:02] So the two were deemed fit to stay in trial and the women were tried for first degree

[00:36:06] murder, but that was eventually downgraded to second degree murder after they made a

[00:36:10] plea deal.

[00:36:11] So the judge sentenced them to five years to life in prison.

[00:36:15] Wait, five years to life?

[00:36:16] That's a huge.

[00:36:18] Yeah.

[00:36:19] Usually it's like 30 years to life.

[00:36:21] I mean, I don't know why I had that in my head, but like 30 years to life.

[00:36:24] I guess I'm confused.

[00:36:26] Five years to life.

[00:36:26] No, that doesn't make any sense.

[00:36:29] We got to figure this out.

[00:36:31] As I said, multiple sources said that.

[00:36:33] I would just be like, well, I'll take the five years then, please.

[00:36:35] How do they determine?

[00:36:37] Melody, do you know?

[00:36:38] Like good behavior on probation.

[00:36:41] It's just when you're eligible for probation.

[00:36:43] So it's not like they're definitely going to get out in five years, but just like they

[00:36:48] can go before the panel.

[00:36:49] Okay.

[00:36:50] But then what would be the, oh, I guess.

[00:36:53] Okay.

[00:36:53] Okay.

[00:36:54] We may have to cut this, but I don't understand that five years to life.

[00:36:58] Yeah.

[00:37:00] I'm going to Google later.

[00:37:01] Five years to life?

[00:37:03] Because you would just get five years or less.

[00:37:05] You're not going to get any more than five years.

[00:37:07] Unless you start like shiving people in prison.

[00:37:09] Yeah.

[00:37:10] That's what I was thinking of.

[00:37:12] Unless you're good behavior.

[00:37:13] Right.

[00:37:13] Good behavior.

[00:37:14] That's why you go.

[00:37:14] But that's earlier.

[00:37:15] But you go before the, well, it has to be at least five years and then you're eligible

[00:37:19] to go to the probation officer or probation panel.

[00:37:24] So you're in for at least five years, but then it's just up to the probation panel.

[00:37:28] Exactly.

[00:37:30] Okay.

[00:37:30] If that's what you, that would make sense to me.

[00:37:33] Yeah.

[00:37:33] That's how it is.

[00:37:33] People are going to write us and be like, you guys are foolish.

[00:37:35] This is not how the legal system works.

[00:37:37] Fact check more women.

[00:37:38] That's all right though.

[00:37:39] We're not lawyers.

[00:37:40] Keep going.

[00:37:40] That's just what I saw online.

[00:37:41] And I couldn't find exact details of the release from prison, but it was reported that Goldeen

[00:37:46] was released sometime in the 1970s.

[00:37:48] So that would have been roughly 20-ish years.

[00:37:51] Okay.

[00:37:51] Yeah.

[00:37:51] And lived in LA until her death at the age of 83.

[00:37:54] As for Joan, we know that she was eventually released, but very little is known about her.

[00:37:58] After 1957, she presumably lived a full life and she passed away at the age of 81 in 1999.

[00:38:05] A 1958 article published in the Valley News Sun criticized the sentencing and what the author

[00:38:11] deemed as a rash of leniency of judges and prosecutors on criminals.

[00:38:15] The crime served as an example of women being treated with tremendously soft sentencing in

[00:38:20] the courtroom.

[00:38:22] Okay.

[00:38:22] But they did serve like 20-something years.

[00:38:25] Five years, I would agree with this.

[00:38:27] I mean, look, if somebody killed my husband, I'd want them to serve more than 20 years.

[00:38:31] So never mind.

[00:38:31] Keep going.

[00:38:32] Well, I guess it depends too, like in relation, if this author was trying to say that women

[00:38:35] are treated more lenient than men, I guess it would depend on the facts on the men.

[00:38:41] I don't know how long.

[00:38:42] Yeah, because we don't have that comparison to make right now.

[00:38:44] Yeah.

[00:38:44] So Betty, though, had nothing to do with her husband's murder then, right?

[00:38:48] Like she didn't call Joan and have Joan set this up.

[00:38:52] And it does sound really fishy, but by all accounts reports, she didn't have anything to

[00:38:57] do with it.

[00:38:57] She never remarried and there's no record of her ever encountering Joan again.

[00:39:02] So that's what I thought at first.

[00:39:03] I'm like, oh, definitely.

[00:39:04] Betty.

[00:39:05] Yeah, they conspired.

[00:39:06] Yeah.

[00:39:06] That would be your immediate thought.

[00:39:07] Right.

[00:39:08] But it didn't seem like it.

[00:39:09] Okay.

[00:39:10] Interesting.

[00:39:10] Yeah.

[00:39:10] So maybe Joan was jealous and that was the motive.

[00:39:13] She didn't want Betty going back to Peter.

[00:39:15] Yeah, that.

[00:39:16] Yes.

[00:39:16] So jealousy and Peter fired her from her job.

[00:39:20] And so I guess it was just like a culmination of all those things.

[00:39:23] Okay.

[00:39:24] That makes sense to me.

[00:39:25] Do you want to know what happened with the house on Community Street?

[00:39:29] 100%.

[00:39:29] Okay.

[00:39:30] According to Redfin, it sold in 1980 for $112,000.

[00:39:34] It was listed as a 1955, 1,700 square foot home.

[00:39:38] And it sits on a 7,500 square foot lot.

[00:39:41] We talked about that earlier.

[00:39:42] It has four bedrooms, two baths.

[00:39:45] And again, according to Redfin, it currently has an estimated value of $895,000.

[00:39:50] Interesting.

[00:39:51] Yeah.

[00:39:51] Okay.

[00:39:51] Yeah.

[00:39:52] We'll post pictures like we always do on our socials.

[00:39:54] By the way, if you guys aren't following our socials, you totally should be because we post

[00:39:57] some fun things on there.

[00:40:00] I mean, it is a very suburban, upper middle class house.

[00:40:05] That's exactly what you would think about that was built in 1955.

[00:40:09] 100%.

[00:40:09] Yeah.

[00:40:09] Like, and it's interesting.

[00:40:11] Some stories I read said that he came from upstairs to downstairs.

[00:40:16] But then I got, I went down a rabbit hole, like Melody will say, on the house because

[00:40:22] this is like a single story house.

[00:40:24] There's no, like, it's very much a 1955 little ranch.

[00:40:27] Right.

[00:40:28] Yeah.

[00:40:28] Yeah.

[00:40:29] Very unassuming, like right next to a very busy street.

[00:40:32] Yeah.

[00:40:33] You can definitely tell the difference when you're researching a crime or events that

[00:40:37] happened more recently than back in the 50s or the 1800s, even as we've covered, because

[00:40:42] there's not a lot of information.

[00:40:44] Like, and there's just conflicting reports.

[00:40:45] And I guess it just has to do with people retelling the story over and over again.

[00:40:48] Yeah.

[00:40:49] That's a good point.

[00:40:49] Yeah.

[00:40:50] So anyway, that's what we found.

[00:40:51] And also the home, according to AI, the home is owned by-

[00:40:57] Which is 100% accurate all the time.

[00:40:59] So R Earl Holding Family owns a property.

[00:41:03] That's really hard to say.

[00:41:04] Like the initial R.

[00:41:05] R Earl Holding Family.

[00:41:09] Okay.

[00:41:09] Yeah.

[00:41:10] Owns it.

[00:41:11] But I'm not sure how accurate that is.

[00:41:12] It's according to Google's AI thing.

[00:41:15] And I couldn't find any other record of who owns it.

[00:41:20] You didn't call Mel's sister and ask her to look up the legal description.

[00:41:23] No, I didn't.

[00:41:23] I didn't.

[00:41:23] Oh, I should have.

[00:41:24] In the middle of her busy attorney job.

[00:41:26] She's like, what do you want?

[00:41:27] Can you please find out who owns this house for me?

[00:41:29] With my boyfriend.

[00:41:30] In Sun Valley.

[00:41:30] Yeah.

[00:41:32] My South African boyfriend.

[00:41:33] Oh, I love him.

[00:41:34] He's so cute.

[00:41:35] He is really cute.

[00:41:35] For what it's worth, Google AI says that's who owns it.

[00:41:39] Yeah.

[00:41:39] The end.

[00:41:40] The end.

[00:41:41] Okay.

[00:41:41] Well, that was a great story that took place on Halloween.

[00:41:44] Mm-hmm.

[00:41:45] Let me ask you this.

[00:41:46] Would you all live there and would you list this house?

[00:41:50] He died in the foyer.

[00:41:52] Yes.

[00:41:54] Yes and yes.

[00:41:54] Yes and yes.

[00:41:56] Yeah.

[00:41:56] Yeah.

[00:41:57] I mean, I have no qualms about the house because of the murder that was, you know, in the 50s

[00:42:03] a long time ago.

[00:42:04] Yeah.

[00:42:05] I'm the same way.

[00:42:06] Not particularly.

[00:42:06] Now that Melanie's told us that it's like the hub of the porn industry, I'm not sure I

[00:42:10] want to live in the valley, but you know, that's a whole other conversation.

[00:42:13] I feel like we need to fact check myself on that one, but yes.

[00:42:16] All right.

[00:42:16] Well, because this is our Halloween episode, I have a couple questions for you guys.

[00:42:28] Okay.

[00:42:31] I don't think I've walked in on anything scary.

[00:42:34] No, surely you have.

[00:42:35] Well, there's, I mean, I don't know if this qualifies, I don't have to answer the question,

[00:42:39] but there was a one house that I showed in like Southwestern Dallas and it's being gentrified.

[00:42:57] Mm-hmm.

[00:42:58] It's a bedroom door or something.

[00:42:59] Like it could say, yes, it's just innocuous door.

[00:43:01] I don't like opening it.

[00:43:02] I will though if I have to, but there's this one door that was in a hallway and I did not

[00:43:06] want to open the door.

[00:43:07] It's a very old house.

[00:43:07] It had been remodeled and it was lovely, but I did not want to open the door.

[00:43:10] My client just went over the door.

[00:43:13] It was the creepiest set of stairs I'd ever seen.

[00:43:15] Like it was, the stairs had not been touched in a hundred plus years and it just led to like

[00:43:21] darkness.

[00:43:22] I didn't go up there.

[00:43:23] I think she went up there.

[00:43:24] I didn't go up there.

[00:43:25] You were like, call me if there's a problem.

[00:43:27] I'm like, uh, no.

[00:43:29] I'm like, you're on your own from here on out.

[00:43:31] That was really creepy because it wasn't even listed in the description.

[00:43:35] It didn't say like, open this door.

[00:43:36] Don't forget to open the door.

[00:43:37] There's some fun addicts.

[00:43:39] I didn't say anything like that.

[00:43:41] It was just there.

[00:43:42] It makes me think I had a client years ago that saw this house and it's like, hey, I think

[00:43:49] she saw it at like an estate sale or something.

[00:43:51] She's like, hey, this house is going to go to the market.

[00:43:53] Let's go see it.

[00:43:54] And so we did.

[00:43:56] And we affectionately referred to it as the crack house from there on out because I was

[00:44:00] like, you are smoking crack if you buy this house.

[00:44:03] But it did have, it had just enough, like it was on a great street.

[00:44:07] It had just enough that you're like, oh, could we make this work?

[00:44:11] And so we went back for another look and we opened a door and it went to brick on the

[00:44:18] outside of the house.

[00:44:19] Like somebody had enclosed a garage and just not walled it off.

[00:44:25] They had just left the garage door.

[00:44:28] And so when you open it up, it was like a little Harry Potter world.

[00:44:32] You just like walked into brick.

[00:44:33] How many people do that?

[00:44:34] It was so weird.

[00:44:36] And I was like, all right.

[00:44:37] Aaron would have drywalled that in a heartbeat.

[00:44:40] He'd be mortified.

[00:44:41] Yeah.

[00:44:42] Mm.

[00:44:43] Mm.

[00:44:43] Have you ever walked into a house mill and had something scary other than all my Amazon

[00:44:47] packages on the front porch?

[00:44:48] Oh, shush.

[00:44:49] No, I love your Amazon packages.

[00:44:51] It just, it just, those actually just make me feel cool, by the way, because I don't

[00:44:56] have as many.

[00:44:57] And so anytime my husband thinks I'm spending too much on Amazon, I can go, Heather spends

[00:45:02] more.

[00:45:03] Well, you didn't see, Heather has her own bank account for Amazon.

[00:45:05] They can say that now.

[00:45:06] It is a budgeting tool.

[00:45:07] Thank you very much.

[00:45:09] Yeah.

[00:45:11] No, I'm trying to think.

[00:45:13] I mean, I've been in a lot of old houses, obviously here in East Dallas, but I lived in

[00:45:18] Old Town, Alexandria in the DC area where 1800s homes were the norm there.

[00:45:26] And, you know, I've definitely been in a bunch of homes that have really steep staircases

[00:45:32] that always creep me out, like where they're like very vertical.

[00:45:37] I'm like, I'm too clumsy for this shit.

[00:45:39] But I'm always like, what, what, what person could have grown their, or raised their kids

[00:45:43] in a house with these like really, really steep staircases?

[00:45:48] I always imagine myself breaking my neck on them.

[00:45:51] Yeah.

[00:45:51] Predating some of those building codes, right?

[00:45:53] I fell down the stairs with my son once when he was a baby.

[00:45:56] I had on socks going down hardwood floors or hardwood stairs.

[00:45:59] And that was terrifying.

[00:46:01] So yeah, I'm with you now.

[00:46:02] Oh, I think I've told the story on one of the podcasts, how my next door neighbor found

[00:46:08] a basement underneath this house.

[00:46:11] Yes.

[00:46:12] Yeah.

[00:46:12] And that's creepy.

[00:46:13] That's so creepy.

[00:46:14] I mean, because in Dallas, basements are very rare.

[00:46:19] And it was when he had just bought the house and they were walking around the floor and he

[00:46:26] was like in like a closet and it was like kind of like a hollow sound underneath him.

[00:46:31] Yeah.

[00:46:32] And he had the inspector with him and the inspector kind of like, like, you know, pulls the wood

[00:46:38] up off the floor and found like a trap door.

[00:46:41] You know, I'm imagining like a twister, you know, kind of like, except this is in their

[00:46:46] hallway.

[00:46:46] Okay.

[00:46:47] And then they opened it up and there was like all the standing water in like a, like

[00:46:54] kind of a quasi basement cellar right underneath their house that the woman who had owned the

[00:47:00] home for many years who lived there before never knew existed.

[00:47:04] Yikes.

[00:47:04] There is a house that was recently for sale in East Dallas that had like a full on bomb

[00:47:10] shelter bunker in their backyard.

[00:47:12] Oh.

[00:47:12] And I went to tour it and the agent was like, if you want to go down there, you're welcome.

[00:47:16] It has like military style cots.

[00:47:19] You can walk down.

[00:47:21] Well, I wanted to, but she was like, we haven't swept it for spiders recently.

[00:47:24] I was like, well, if you had swept it, I would totally go.

[00:47:27] I wanted to check it out.

[00:47:28] I thought it'd be cool.

[00:47:29] I would have gone to look at the house just for the bomb shelter.

[00:47:33] Really?

[00:47:33] That's really neat.

[00:47:35] Yeah.

[00:47:35] It freaks me out.

[00:47:36] Yeah.

[00:47:37] Well, this was a good episode, Alena.

[00:47:39] I think.

[00:47:39] That was fun.

[00:47:40] Thank you, girls.

[00:47:40] We hope you guys are loving all of our episodes.

[00:47:43] You know, we're wrapping up 2024.

[00:47:45] We've got what?

[00:47:46] Eight weeks left in the year.

[00:47:48] It's going to be really exciting.

[00:47:50] We've got some big stuff in store for 2025.

[00:47:52] So please make sure you like and subscribe so you stay up to date on all the fun things

[00:47:57] we have coming your way.

[00:47:58] What else do we need to tell people?

[00:48:01] Like and subscribe.

[00:48:02] Social media.

[00:48:03] Like and subscribe.

[00:48:04] Or Amazon.

[00:48:06] Yeah.

[00:48:06] So we've partnered with a couple of like Amazon affiliate kind of things.

[00:48:09] We've got some really fun items up on our Crime State shop.

[00:48:15] So you can go to crimestate.com slash shop.

[00:48:17] We have some of our very favorite.

[00:48:20] Currently, we have some of our very favorite home goods.

[00:48:22] But we are going to be posting our holiday list.

[00:48:24] Like the must-have hostess gifts.

[00:48:28] Teenage boy gifts.

[00:48:29] All the things for teenage boys.

[00:48:31] I wish we could tell you what to buy for teenage girls.

[00:48:33] We're not in that genre.

[00:48:35] No, that's what we should do.

[00:48:36] We should go to their friends.

[00:48:37] And we'll post their list.

[00:48:39] We love it.

[00:48:39] Yeah.

[00:48:40] It's a lot of makeup.

[00:48:41] A lot of Sephora.

[00:48:42] Everything Sephora.

[00:48:42] All right.

[00:48:43] Anything else, Mel?

[00:48:44] No.

[00:48:45] Love you guys.

[00:48:46] Love you.

[00:48:46] All right.

[00:48:46] We'll see you all next week.

[00:48:47] Bye.

[00:48:48] Bye.

[00:48:51] Hey, y'all.

[00:48:52] Thanks for listening and being a part of our Crime Estate family.

[00:48:55] If you're curious about today's featured Crime Estate, you can find additional photos and

[00:48:59] details from today's episode online at CrimeEstate.com.

[00:49:02] Or on Facebook and Instagram by following at CrimeEstatePodcast.

[00:49:06] Have a Crime Estate we should cover?

[00:49:08] Let us know.

[00:49:09] Shoot us an email at CrimeEstatePodcast at gmail.com.

[00:49:12] Until next week.