65 - Laci & Connor Peterson

[00:00:04] At the intersection of true crime and real estate, you'll find Crime Estate. I'm Heather. And my name is Elena. As real estate agents and true crime junkies, we view crimes through a different lens. So walk through the door of some of the most notorious true crimes with us and discover how sometimes the scene of the crime has its own story to tell. Hey y'all, Happy New Year! I am so happy to be back in the studio recording.

[00:00:34] Sort of a rather infamous episode with you guys today. I'm Heather, here with my co-host and fellow realtor Elena, and of course our friend, producer, and commentator Melanie. Hey ladies! Hey! Happy New Year! Happy New Year! It's a new year, we have some new fun things planned. We have our video that we have going on right now and I'm kind of nervous about it. Yeah, I don't think we should promise that this is going to be a video podcast. This might be our intro to

[00:01:02] video podcasting or it'll be on the bloopers reel at the end of the year. Oh, I like that. But we do have all the equipment set up and it's really exciting. It's looking really fancy in here. Yeah, and it's like don't trip. I know. Don't trip on a court. So, alright, well, y'all, as is so often the case, today our story takes us to California and I think we'd be remiss if we didn't first say like how much our hearts are so heavy and sad for everything that's going on. All of those families who have lost their homes. I mean,

[00:01:30] it's just, it's almost hard to fathom and quantify. Now, if you listen to our show on a regular basis, you know that Mel's family lives in California. So, I know we were texting Melanie. Have you heard from them lately? Is everybody okay? Yeah, everyone's okay at the moment. My sisters could have been Culver City near Santa Monica. So, they've been okay. Just the air quality is horrible. Like they can't even walk their dog.

[00:01:56] And, you know, anytime they leave their apartment, they have to have masks on. But my brother and sister-in-law and new niece, brand new baby niece and nephew, they are more in the valley in the Woodland Hills area on the border with Calabasas. And they did get the, there's this great app. I mean, for those of us not in California,

[00:02:21] we would not know this, but there's this watch, like a fire watch app. And you can kind of put in what your address is or, you know, what important addresses are to you. And then you get these automatic alerts with, and it's a very visual representation of where all the fires are and what the current status is and how much has been contained. And so they were both working from home. Well, my brother was working from home. My sister-in-law has a one week old. Oh my goodness.

[00:02:50] Yeah. Literally that brand new baby. And they get the alert that there's a fire right behind their house. And so within 10 minutes, they had packed up both cars and their dog and their cat and their kids and the housekeeper who happened to be just coincidentally over at the house and all the clean clothes that that was in the laundry machine. And they hightailed it out of there. They were lucky. It was the fire

[00:03:17] departments, like started putting the helicopters drop in the water. Oh, and there's like a big park kind of right behind them where the fire was only a couple blocks away. And they were able to, I don't know if contains the right word, but they were able to get it pretty quickly. It's still burning. It's over at this point. I'm coming back towards their house, but you know, ever it's everywhere right by them.

[00:03:44] And so I can, you know, only imagine, you know, with the small visibility that I have in Texas, talking to my sister and all of her and finding about her friends, my sister knows someone who's already passed away in the fire that how horrible and crazy it is to be there. And, you know, we talk a lot about the fact that there's a lot of wealthy homes in this area and, you know, a lot of these areas

[00:04:08] are quite beautiful, but, you know, you know, be remiss in thinking about not everybody out there. And it doesn't matter if you're super wealthy. I mean, it's a tragedy in every single absolute, but also think about the people who had their businesses or their jobs or, you know, work, worked out there or lived in the condos or, or people who had lived in the neighborhood for, you know, 30,

[00:04:31] 40 years before it got super expensive. And, you know, and so it is, you know, a biblical disaster of proportions for, for everyone. You're absolutely right. And, you know, you make a good point. We make our livelihoods in real estate. And so obviously it's easy for us to extrapolate on, you know, you're not selling houses, you're not making money, you're not making, you know, you're not paying, able to pay your bills, maybe, or your mortgage. But on the flip side, I think about all those small businesses,

[00:05:01] you know, we had what two days of what we're going to call a snow day here, where everybody sort of stayed home with our dusting of snow. And we're going to go out to dinner to a local restaurant tonight. Cause I just thought two days of, you know, everybody being home really hurt a business. So, you know, when you take that on such a small scale and try to, you know, like I said, it's unfathomable to think so, but I'm glad to hear they're doing well so far, Melanie, and please keep us posted.

[00:05:30] Yeah. One of the things that I had, and I thought of you ladies was that apparently some of the insurance companies had cut fire insurance for about 76,000 homes in the last couple of months. And these were people that had fire insurance that were then told that they were no longer going to be

[00:05:50] supported at it. And can you imagine that, you know, you have this catastrophe and you're not even able to get out your insurance payments? I mean, that's crazy. Right. Sad. Yeah. And you know, I assume it works there the same way it works here. You know, if you have a mortgage on your home, you have to have insurance. Now I would assume in California they require fire insurance as well.

[00:06:15] But sometimes like if you're dropped, what that means is you're forced into the premium that the mortgage company finds, which is usually five, six, seven times the amount of whatever premium.

[00:06:27] It's almost like Cobra health insurance, right? Where you need it and it's drastically expensive, but you have to do it until you can find a new insurance situation. Or you have homes that have been paid off for years and people are like, I'm just not going to spend $100,000 a year on homeowner's insurance. And they're running that, you know, that gamble. Because if you don't have a mortgage, you're not required to have it. That's up to you.

[00:06:51] Yeah. Do you remember from the Hills, that TV show, Heidi Montag and Spencer Pratt? Yeah. So there, you know, Spencer's kind of gone viral in the last couple of days on TikTok. And, you know, he says that they don't have any fire insurance because they were dropped. And so they've lost everything. So I mean, just. It's heartbreaking. I think he was the one that showed he had the ring security camera. I don't know that it was right, but he had the security footage showing the fire coming up to their front door.

[00:07:18] That's just crazy. So, so yeah, I, you know, didn't want, don't want to start off on super negative, but this is so important. And, you know, it's crazy because we have so many stories that coincidentally take place in California. Just like our last one.

[00:07:37] Yeah. So last week's episode, you know, was Dr. Mark Solwich, the King of Malibu. And what's so interesting, you know, I think we've talked about how things on this show just always seem to tie into one another. We had recorded that months ago and it just sort of got set aside because there was. I thought about it.

[00:07:55] I was going to say there were some topical things that we needed to cover, but you're right. We sort of forgot about it. And so we posted that one last week, well before any of these fires, you know, were in the news or anybody knew about them. And we for sure know that the restaurant we mentioned, Moon Shadows, that Melanie and her family had been to, and that is right down the road. Like front houses, maybe.

[00:08:20] Yeah. We know because of their social media that Moon Shadows did burn down. Look, I think it's probably a really good guess that the house we covered last week did too, but I haven't been able to verify that.

[00:08:36] So, you know, I would just say if your hearts are hurting like ours, you can help by giving to the LA Fire Department Foundation. They are asking for donations so they can buy and give firefighters emergency fire shelters, hydration backpacks, and wildland brush tools needed to stymie the wildfires. So we're going to link to that foundation in our show notes and on socials. And of course, there's always, you know, the American Red Cross. All right. So are you all ready for today's crime instance? Yes.

[00:09:04] Okay. You know, there are cities that become synonymous with the horrific crimes that occur inside their borders. If I say Waco, you're likely to think about... Branch Davidians. Branch Davidians. That's right. Mention of Columbine immediately brings to mind the school shootings.

[00:09:22] And if I say Modesto, it's likely that the story we are covering today comes to mind, that of the disappearance and murder of Lacey Peterson from her home in Modesto, California on Christmas Eve, 2002. And you all may think that you know everything there is to know about this case, but Deep Dive Melanie has found some really interesting facts that I've not heard or seen covered in other podcasts and documentaries. And of course, we're covering the real estate surrounding the crime as well.

[00:09:51] I feel like Deep Dive Melanie could have been your college nickname. Oh, God. Oh! I'm just saying you're sassy. Wow. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'll ask Jason. All right. And on that note, so I want you all to think back to 2002, or I guess really the early stages of 2003. Were you captivated by this case? Did you follow it on the news? It seems like so long ago. Yes. I was aware of it.

[00:10:21] It was long ago. 22 years. You're right. Oh, my gosh. It's wild. Yeah. Yes. I was very familiar with it, but it wasn't until years later that I really took my first deep dive into it. So on the periphery. There was a lot going on in 2002 for me, but yeah. Yeah. I think the same with me. It was definitely something I was aware of and knew of, but I think that was probably more before some of my true crime interests came about. And I was a newlywed, so different times.

[00:10:50] I was a newlywed, too. I was still partying, y'all. Well, I mean, we were, too. Well, true. All right. Well, as a little bit of background, Scott and Lacey started dating in 1994 after first meeting at a college party, Mel, Elena, and then running into each other at a restaurant where Scott worked. Now, Scott proposed in December of 1996, and the two were married in August of the following year. Three years later, they moved from San Luis Obispo.

[00:11:19] Did I say that right? Yeah. Okay, great. To Modesto in order to be closer to Lacey's family who lived nearby. And it's then that they bought their three-bedroom home at 523 Covina Avenue for $177,000. Sounds like a bargain. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really cute house. Yeah. It was definitely a nice neighborhood. I didn't exactly know where Modesto was. It was one of those- Which shocks me, by the way.

[00:11:45] Well, it's one of those towns, like, you know, I had heard so much of, but also really kind of associated with this case that I had to take a step back and look it up. And it's kind of funny because they moved from San Luis Obispo. And if you hadn't known, they had actually owned, like, a bar in San Luis Obispo, which is, like, a beautiful, beautiful, like, tourist town. And then they moved to Modesto, which is a town of slightly more than 200,000 people. And it's in the central San Joaquin Valley in Northern California.

[00:12:14] So, if you're kind of picturing a map, it's about 90 miles due east of San Francisco, 60 miles south of Sacramento, and 60 miles west of, like, Yosemite National Park. So, I mean, I'm not going to say it's not in the middle of nowhere. It's just not in a big urban area. But what it is in the big area is prime California farmland. So, you would say they moved from, like, a cool, touristy city to, like, more rural. Yeah.

[00:12:44] Yeah. I mean, you know, yeah. More of a farming agricultural community. Okay. So, the house they bought is charming. It is a one-story red brick and shake shingle traditional home totaling 1770 square feet in the La Loma neighborhood. Now, the house was built in 1949. And, you guys, it reminds me a lot of the early 1950s ranch-style homes that we have here in East Dallas. It has hardwood floors, a paneled living room with a brick fireplace as the focal point.

[00:13:14] And the kitchen opened onto, like, a more intimate family room. So, you would have the, quote, unquote, formal living room and then the den behind it. That also had a fireplace. And then the kitchen featured this green tile countertop. It had saltil tile floors. And by all accounts, Scott and Lacey were looking forward to updating this home over time, starting a family there. And Lacey was known to be an amazing housekeeper and decorator. One of those people who wanted everything right, didn't like anything out of place.

[00:13:44] And she was also very close with her mom. They chatted frequently and were friends as much as they were mother and daughter. And, you know, those two things make me feel like a real kinship with her. My mom is still one of my very best friends. And you don't like things out of place. That is very true. Yeah. Yeah. So, when they moved to Modesto, Scott began working as a fertilizer salesman. Now, this was an ideal job for the area of the country. It's like you said, Mel. This is sort of prime California farmland.

[00:14:11] But the job also required him to travel quite a bit. Lacey worked as a substitutes teacher in the local school system. Have you all ever been a substitute teacher? No. Oh, my gosh. Mel, have you? I have not. My husband had like one. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Jason, when he graduated college and was looking for his first real job, he worked as a sub. Oh. So, when I was in college in Oklahoma to be a substitute teacher, you just had to have a high school degree. And I only had classes like three days a week.

[00:14:41] And so, I subbed in our local school system where my brother was also in high school. Okay. That's funny. So, I was really cute and 18. Yeah. And had like long hair. It was super thin. My brother is a freshman in high school. No. He came home one day and he was like, you are never allowed to sub at my school again. If one more guy asks me for your phone number, I'm going to punch someone. Oh, how cute is that? Yeah. That is hilarious.

[00:15:08] And also, makes you a little suspect of the Oklahoma school system. Oh, well. I was just subbing, you know. But yes, I get it. Anyway, according to all of Lacey's friends, Lacey really had her heart set on being a mom. I mean, everything I've told you about her, you can see that. And in later interviews, her friends say that she was born for the role of motherhood. However, this became like a source of quite a bit of tension in their marriage as Scott

[00:15:37] initially said he did not want kids. And after one argument about it, Lacey called her mother Sharon crying. Kind of sounds like they maybe have been on the same page at one point because they moved from, like Mel said, the touristy area into more of a rural maybe community to raise a child. Sounds like that's what they were ready to do. Right, right. Yeah, I agree. Maybe the realness became too much. Maybe. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if this was a case of his changing his mind or it's hard to say.

[00:16:04] And they were so young when they got married, too, that it's like what you say you want then and what you want later in life can be different. Now, regardless of whatever their initial agreement was, Elena, Lacey had reached the point where she was like, I want a baby. Scott didn't. And I'm not really sure what happened to change Scott's mind, although I know in our house I wouldn't have stopped talking about it until his mind was changed. Yeah. Yes. But six months later, Lacey called her mom and told her that they had decided to try and get pregnant.

[00:16:35] That came up last week, didn't it? It did. Dr. Sovich. Because he was divorced twice, but one of his divorces was because he didn't want kids either. Oh, live recording. We got some dogs going on today. We should flash a picture of Riley. Oh, that would be so cute. Riley Alert. I love it. All right. Well, so unless you guys have been living under a rock for the last 20 years, you know that Scott and Lacey did indeed get pregnant with a baby boy that they had decided to name Connor.

[00:17:01] Now, Lacey was overjoyed she decorated Connor's nursery in an aquatic nautical boating theme and nod to the hobbies that Scott loved. He was an avid fisherman who loved boating and fishing. And in her journal, Lacey wrote that the two of them went to a doctor's appointment to hear the baby's heartbeat. She went on to describe how overjoyed she was at hearing Connor's heartbeat, but noted that Scott didn't really seem happy even though she knew that he was deep down. Yikes. Yeah. Not a good sign.

[00:17:30] But I will say, I don't think men always show emotion at that kind of appointment. Your husband would have, I bet. Yeah. I bet he was real emotional about it. Yeah, totally. He's an emotional guy. Mine wanted to know about the health insurance. Oh. Illogical guy. Yeah. Yeah. Was Jason emotional about it, Mel? I would say he's probably kind of in between. Like, definitely not stoic, but not one to be as emotional with strangers about it.

[00:17:59] But yeah, no, I mean, he was not going to miss it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. All right. Well, so let's fast forward to the morning of Christmas Eve 2002, where at this point, Lacey is eight months pregnant. Now, according to Scott, the two got up like normal and Scott decided that he was going to go golfing. Something like a little fun to do on his day off. You know, he's off for the holiday. Yeah. And I kind of thought about this because, you know, as a wife to a passionate golfer and

[00:18:26] a mother to a golfer, even though I was taken a little aback that he was going to leave his eight month pregnant wife on Christmas Eve to play golf. That said, you know, if you didn't, you know, kind of interesting facts about Scott Peterson that not everyone might know was he was a big golfer, like an avid youth golfer growing up. He actually played on the same high school team as Phil Mickelson in the San Diego area. Yeah. He was from San Diego.

[00:18:54] He, you know, and he was supposed to have been like the next big thing at that high school. He had been recruited to Arizona State to play golf with Phil Mickelson there and got into a little bit of a snafu. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. He was apparently took some prospective students out drinking and one of the, and it's a future PGA Tour professionals, dad complained.

[00:19:22] So he was thrown off the Arizona State team and out of school. And so that was how he kind of went to a route to where he ended up meeting Lacey. But he definitely had started off going, trying to go more of the pro golf way world. So long story short, kind of an interesting small world out there, but I could also see that, you know, he could possibly have wanted to go play golf while he had the time before the baby was born. I mean, I know my husband will say that he played a lot of golf before having kids and

[00:19:52] then he played a lot more golf once his son started playing golf. But there was probably about a 10 year time period in the middle that he never played. So as I'm playing amateur detective here, my husband would never go play golf just by himself. Now, maybe if you are that level, you do just because you have to, you can't play as much as you want without friends. But he would always at least have one other person, if not a foursome. Wouldn't you think, Mel? Like to get onto the course?

[00:20:22] Yeah. I mean, they had recently joined a country club in Modesto. And so usually when you, you know, join the country club, they'll just put you with other people. Oh, maybe that's what he was going to do. Yeah. Just play with whoever needed a partner or something. I mean, I could, I could kind of see it both ways, but if he was that passionate of a golfer and, and, you know, playing devil's advocate, I probably would have told my husband, hey, go spend a few hours because next month you're getting cut off. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah.

[00:20:52] And so while Scott says he's going to go play golf, he says that Lacey was excited to do a few things around the house, which sounds right for what we know about her, right? She was going to walk the dog. She was going to vacuum. She was going to make some cookies before they went to her parents' house for Christmas Eve dinner. And if indeed Lacey is alive at this point, I can only imagine her excitement. I mean, here she is pregnant with her first baby. It's their last Christmas without a child around to sort of experience that Christmas magic. The nursery's ready.

[00:21:20] She's just sort of experiencing all of that holiday joy. And while we don't know if she was in fact alive the morning of December 24th, we do know that Lacey would not live to see Christmas day that year. Now, because there's a lot of gray in the sequence of events, we want to lay out the timeline of what we know occurred. All right? So on the evening of December 23rd, Scott Peterson and his wife Lacey visited Salon Salon where Lacey's sister Amy Rocha worked.

[00:21:49] The salon owner testified at trial that Scott mentioned that he had a 7 a.m. tea time the next morning at the Del Rio Country Club in Modesto. Like you said, Mel, they had just joined there. And that's the last time that anyone besides Scott Peterson can attest to Lacey's whereabouts, Elena. So prosecutors believe that Lacey was killed later that night on the 23rd while Scott insists they just had a normal night. They grabbed a pizza to bring home.

[00:22:16] They watched Monday Night Football, which by the way, I would never do with my husband. I'm not that good of a wife. Certainly not while pregnant. Right. We're watching when I want to watch. I want. 100%. Well, maybe she wanted to. Maybe. Maybe she did. I watch a lot of sports with my husband. You're a better wife than I am, Melanie. All right. So the next morning, Scott claims that they got up, had breakfast, and Lacey was watching Martha Stewart on TV, which actually comes into play a lot later in the trial.

[00:22:44] So there's no mention of what was supposed to have been his like 7 a.m. tea time. That obviously didn't happen. So he says he left the house around 9.45 that morning to take a few things to his nearby warehouse where he did some work, put together a new tool, and sent a Christmas email greeting to his boss. So remember, he's a fertilizer salesman, so he has this like warehouse slash office. Okay. Now, from computer records, detectives are able to verify that he was at the warehouse

[00:23:13] and that he sent that message to his boss. Okay. He then claims that he decided it's too cold to golf, so he's going to take this new fishing boat that he has out to the Berkeley Marina. Not necessarily to fish, just to sort of get it in the water and make sure it's like water worthy. Mm-hmm. So he says he leaves the warehouse around 11.15 and he drives almost 90 miles, so potentially two hours in traffic to the Berkeley Marina.

[00:23:42] It was a cold, windy day on the water and several men reportedly witnessed him having trouble using his trailer to launch the boat, which totally makes sense to me. It's this brand new boat. Like you're at a marina. You don't go to a lot. I could see. But, you know, it is, it was too cold to golf, you know, two hours inland. So you're going to go take, and by the way, this was a freshwater small fishing boat that he then goes to take to the ocean saltwater because Berkeley Marina, it's on the Pacific

[00:24:11] Ocean, you know, in the bay. I don't know. It just seems, really? It was too cold to golf, but you're going to go out on the... Well, and everybody knows it's always colder on the water. Oh, yeah. And, I mean, let's be honest. Well, Alana doesn't know because we can't get her on the water. Well, I know things about bodies of water. She can extrapolate. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I got that. Yeah. I mean, and this is the Pacific Ocean. It's a bay, but, I mean, it's cold, wet, windy. I don't know.

[00:24:36] It doesn't make sense to me that that was what he would decide to do if it was too cold and to go two hours away. I mean, there are lakes a lot closer in between. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. But for the sake of the timeline, we feel confident that he was there at that time because these people saw him. And then later, he's able to produce a receipt like where he pulled in to the marina.

[00:25:02] Now, meanwhile, back at 1018 a.m., a neighbor finds the Peterson's golden retriever dog walking around the neighborhood with his leash dangling, and she walks him to the Peterson's backyard and just shuts the gate. Nice. Super nice. And we do this all the time on my street. The dogs always get out. You just walk them back to the house. You ring the doorbell if nobody's home. You just put them in the backyard. Although now we would text. Right. And be like, hey, put the dog in the backyard.

[00:25:29] And it would be odd not to hear back from somebody like, oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. Right. So according to neighbors, Melanie, I think you said Lacey like walked her dog a lot, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like there were it was interesting. I found some Reddit about people who said that they knew her or they lived in the neighborhood.

[00:25:52] And they they all kind of said, well, we didn't really know her, but she was very visible walking the dog multiple times a day. And if you've got to imagine by this time, she's eight months pregnant. So she's very visible. Walking around the neighborhood, waving, being friendly. And meanwhile, some of the neighbors who said they lived a few houses down said, yeah, I would not even have recognized him. So, you know, I kind of feel bad. I mean, granted, she was kind of stay at home working as a substitute teacher. So she probably had more time.

[00:26:22] But it's just a little odd juxtaposition. One other random fact, I don't know if you saw, Heather, in some of your research was there was another neighbor who was seven months pregnant who also had a Labrador dog who was known for walking around the neighborhood as well. I only point that out that, you know, later on, you know, there's a lot of witnesses saying they saw a pregnant lady walking a dog.

[00:26:46] So there's some discussion, you know, you know, which pregnant person they were talking about. Right. Some ambiguity there. That makes sense. Now, at 2.15, Scott calls and he leaves a message on their home answering machine. And he says he wasn't able to pick up a gift for, I can't tell if it's his dad or her daddy calls him, Papa. And he asked if she has time to get it instead.

[00:27:10] Now, I want you all to imagine for just a minute that Scott Peterson did, in fact, murder Lacey Peterson prior to 2.15 when he makes this phone call. Okay. I think the detectives thought he was setting up an alibi, which makes sense, right? Like, I obviously thought my wife was alive, so I called and left a message. And then he asked her to do him a favor. If he actually, like, what an asshole. Mm-hmm.

[00:27:38] You're not even just calling to be like, hey, babe, love you, see you later. Like, oh, can you do something for me? Right. I was really offended by that. Like, more so maybe than I should have been. Yeah. I get that. I get not, I'm not as passionate about it as you are, but I see where you're coming from. I've been way too long thinking about it. Yeah. I can see that. You know, one of the things that's kind of interesting here is, so he called at 2.15, presumably, remembers about two hours from the marina. So as he was about to leave. And so he's calling from his cell phone.

[00:28:07] So keep in mind, this was December of 2002. And so while people were having cell phones, it wasn't the cell phone culture that you and I kind of, you know, know now. A lot of times people were still using their cell phones more just for the cars. Because you notice he calls and leaves it on their home voicemail. But yet Lacey did have a cell phone. Right. Well, every minute counted, right? You had your minute plans at that point. Yeah, it's just kind of interesting. He doesn't call her cell phone.

[00:28:37] He calls the home phone. Okay. So at 4.30, so about, you know, a little over two hours later, he arrives home. He puts his clothes in the washer. He showers. He has some pizza. And then he's like, well, it's weird that Lacey's not here still. So he calls Lacey's mom, Sharon, to see if Lacey had gone on over to her house. He makes that call at 5.17 p.m. Lacey's car was home, but Lacey was nowhere to be found.

[00:29:04] At 5.18, because, you know, we're not wasting any more time at this point, Scott starts walking around the neighborhood looking for Lacey and talking to the neighbors. Several neighbors testified that he claimed to have been golfing that morning, not fishing, as we all know he was. I mean, and they testified at trial later that he said this. I mean, that's a pretty specific thing to mess up. And at 5.47 p.m., Lacey's stepdad reports her missing to the police. Okay.

[00:29:33] At 9.55, Detective Al Brocchini goes out to the Peterson home. He finds no evidence of forced entry or a struggle in the house. Despite having told his neighbors that he had been golfing that morning, Scott Peterson does tell the police that he had been fishing, and he produces a receipt to prove his location to them.

[00:29:53] So the detectives found Lacey's keys, her wallet, her sunglasses, and a purse in the closet, and they began organizing a more formal search of the area. Now, according to the USA Today news article, police later told news stations that they, of course, suspected Scott right off the bat. Of course. I mean, he's the husband, right? That's automatically suspect number one.

[00:30:17] But also they said he was just like cold and calculated, and they also cited his refusal to take a polygraph test as another point of suspicion, which, if I haven't made it clear yet, I'm not a fan of Scott Peterson. But I don't know that this is a strike against me at this point. What about y'all? Would you take a lie detector test if somebody asked you to? I don't know. That's it. Yeah, I mean, that's fair. You're looking at me for like more. No, I really don't know.

[00:30:47] I feel like I would because I wouldn't have done, hopefully, whatever they are accusing me of. But I don't know. They're inconclusive, and I don't know how much I trust them. I think that in 2002, I would definitely have done it. I think my knowledge about the lie detector polygraph test being inconclusive is much stronger probably back at that age and at that time period. I would have just believed it. I would have probably believed in it.

[00:31:17] But I also tend to think that I would just do anything. But, you know, like, okay, let's say my spouse was missing and I obviously didn't have anything to do with it. I would be like, yeah, I'd be like, investigate me as much as possible so that we can get on to the real crime. Like, you know, like I'm not good. I'm going to be an open book. You can tour anything. You can do whatever because I want you to be able to focus on, you know, the real suspects.

[00:31:48] Yeah, that's where I waver because, you know, I'm highly anxious. And so I would be suspicious that my anxiety would provide some false answers. But if my husband were missing, I would obviously be like, yes, whatever we need to do. And the other thing he did that was sort of suspicious, police thought, was he did not sign the second search warrant.

[00:32:12] So after they came to the house the first time, that first night, they decided they wanted to come back and look again. And they produced a search warrant. And I guess he's supposed to sign it saying like, yeah, it's okay. And he wouldn't do it, which is fine. They could do the search anyway. But it sounds like maybe he was like wanted like his lawyer's advice. Like, if I sign this, what does it mean? I don't know.

[00:32:37] It just, while I'm not a fan of him, it seems like some of the things that they say were suspicious maybe were just like bad advice from people. Yeah. All right. So in the days right after Lacey's disappearance, rewards for information were offered and a large scale search was coordinated with over 1,500 volunteers, which is really impressive if you think we're talking Christmas Day. Right. And in the holidays following.

[00:33:04] Along with the search, nationwide coverage began of the missing eight-month pregnant woman. Some neighbors believed that they had seen Lacey walking her dog on Christmas Eve morning, like Mel said, although no one said they spoke to her. And there is debate that, you know, it could have been Christmas Day. It could have been Christmas Eve. Like, all the days get jumbled during the holidays. Was it really Christmas Eve that you saw or was it the day before?

[00:33:30] Or, you know, we're not necessarily in our routines where we can, you know, know our patterns quite as well. Right. Now, we know, like we said, that the husband is always the first person that investigators look at when a wife goes missing. And that was the case here, too, like we said. But by all accounts, Scott was like a loving and devoted husband. We have this message on the answering machine that's like, hey, babe, you know, sorry I missed you. Love you.

[00:34:00] This sweet voice. This sweet voice. And Lacey had never told anyone that they were having problems or that he was abusive. Side note, when I was researching this, did you all know that 30% of domestic abuse cases start when a woman is pregnant? That's wild. That is a huge number. I had no idea.

[00:34:24] An article that I read for the Harvard School of Public Health said that women in the U.S. who are pregnant or have recently given birth are more likely to be murdered than to die from any obstetric causes. I knew that. Did you? Yeah, I knew that part. Okay. Yeah. That's wild. So, while there was some suspicion from police, this is, you know, probably typical. The husband's always the suspect. They really didn't have anything concrete that gave them a motive.

[00:34:51] That is until they received a call from what we're calling the hero of our story, Amber Frye. Now, let me give you a little background on Amber Frye because I think we all know her, but we just know her from what happened. We don't know who she was before what happened, right? So, she was a single mom. She had a young daughter, and she had just started a job as a massage therapist. Things were going really well for her.

[00:35:15] And she began dating Scott Peterson two months before Lacey disappeared when the two were introduced via a friend at a work convention. Now, Scott told Amber that he was single and that he had never been married, and their relationship quickly progressed. But, unfortunately for their budding relationship, Scott told Amber that he had been planning a trip to Europe for Christmas, and so he gave her a different phone to call him on while he was out of the country.

[00:35:45] Now, go ahead. What were you going to say, then? I think that's messed up. Just being. Well, yeah, but I'm thinking about it. Like, again, we're talking 2002. Mm-hmm. Like, there weren't really international plans, Miss Phone Company over there. I'm just thinking about the fair part. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, that is definitely. Oh, yeah, sorry. I'm like the phone. You're being very analytical. She's being emotional. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:10] And it seems like he had had other affairs over the time period that they were married. And did she know about those, do you think? I don't know. Did she find anything out about that? Scott likes to say she did, but who knows? Well, Amber became a little suspicious. She thought it was odd that every time he called her, or a lot of times when he called her, she could hear water running like he was in the shower or in the bathroom. I would say that's a red flag.

[00:36:38] That's background noise so that your spouse doesn't hear you on the phone. Don't you think? Well, yeah, no. Yeah. Now that you say that, I don't know if I necessarily would have thought that, but now I'm suspicious. Yeah. So if your husband start calling you and you're water running all the time. Oh, no. Uh-uh. No, you did not. Doing that off right now. So Amber has a friend that's a police officer or somehow involved with law enforcement. She's like, hey, you know, I've been dating this guy.

[00:37:07] I really like him, but I don't know, like a couple red flags. Would you just look into him for me? Smart. Smart girl. She is a smart girl. And so her friend agrees. And so on December 29th, while they're at this holiday, post-holiday party, her friend comes up to her and hands her a newspaper clipping of an article about Scott Peterson. That's crazy. Mm-hmm. So she's reading this article and it's like fertilizer salesman. He drives the same truck as this guy I'm dating.

[00:37:37] Oh, he has the same name as the guy I'm dating. And she just really can't believe. Like, she's like, surely there's some world where there are two Scott Petersons that are also fertilizer salesmen and drive this truck. Probably not. I mean, Scott Peterson is fairly common. Right. I can do the name. It's not John Smith. Right. So she calls the Modesto police, but initially it's not to, like, report him. What she really wants to know is, like, is this the same guy?

[00:38:07] Surely this is a different guy. Right. And as she's talking, the police are like, yes, we will come visit you. We would like to chat with you about this relationship. So they show up the next morning. And this is December 30th. She doesn't waste any time. No. Like, she calls immediately. December 30th, the Modesto police arrive at Amber's home in Fresno, California. And they collect evidence of their relationship, which includes pictures of them together.

[00:38:37] And Amber discloses that, hey, you know, he's still calling me. Says he's in Europe. Obviously, he's not. But, like, he's calling me. So the police ask Amber to wear a wire. Or actually not even quite that, like, tech savvy. They go to Radio Shack and buy a recording device. Good old Radio Shack. I loved Radio Shack. And I am so proud of her. She plays this perfectly. Because I'm sure she is terrified.

[00:39:04] They had no long, like, they had just showed her how to set up the recorder and, like, push record. And he calls. Dang. So she doesn't have any time to really practice. And, you know, you can hear they end up with, like, over, I want to say it was, like, 24 hours of recordings of the two of them on the phone together. So she's really trying to be helpful to the investigation. So on one of these recorded calls, December 31st.

[00:39:33] So we're just, like, another day later now in our timeline. Okay. Scott, who, remember, was supposed to be in Europe, he calls Amber and he's pretending that he is in front of the Eiffel Tower for New Year's Eve. But there is a vigil for missing Lacey Peterson in Modesto with, like, live news coverage showing him, like, right in front of the cameras. Psycho.

[00:40:00] On the phone at this vigil for his missing wife calling his girlfriend. It's messed up. It's really messed up. So gross. So detectives kept the information about this affair to themselves initially. But when they found out that the National Enquirer was going to run a picture of Scott and Amber, they really felt like Lacey's family needed to know. That's not cool, but I loved the National Enquirer back in the day. Oh, yeah.

[00:40:30] Like, elementary school, I was reading National Enquirer. This does not surprise me. That does not surprise me. I do recall when we would be going, like, on road trips. That was, like, the one time I could get somebody to buy me a National Enquirer. Like, you know, like, we'd be in the gas station and we'd walk in to pay or something like that. And so I could get, like, a National Enquirer or a grocery store on a road trip. Like, yeah, you know, how are we supposed to know about the aliens abducting people?

[00:40:59] And they actually had legit. I feel like National Enquirer was legit. Like this. Like, they were going to release her picture. Okay. They were legit. They had true stuff in there. There was true stuff. Okay. Okay. They did have true stuff, but oftentimes, remember, they would pay people off or they would publish really mean things. Like, okay. We're going to have to dive more into the history of National Enquirer. Okay.

[00:41:28] I have a challenge for you. Uh-oh. Me or her? You. Okay. Sometime this year, I want you to bring us a story for a crime estate. Okay. From the National Enquirer. Oh, okay. I like it. I like it. Okay. Okay. All right. So moving on, they very respectfully did not want Lacey's family to find out this way. So detectives meet with her family. And then on January the 24th, so we're not even 30 days past when Amber alerts the police that there's this affair.

[00:41:57] They're going on. The investigators held a press conference disclosing the affair with Amber Frye. Now, not surprisingly, it was at this time that Lacey's family broke with the Petersons on the investigation, stating that they no longer supported Scott Peterson due to his lack of communication and cooperation with the police. When news of the affair broke, Scott says Lacey knew about it. However, I want to go back again playing amateur detective.

[00:42:27] Lacey was really close with her mom. Mm-hmm. If she knew about the affair, do you think she would have told her mom? I don't know. I feel like she would, but then also in the hopes that they would reconcile, she wouldn't because that's not something a mom would easily forget. Yeah. Or forgive. What do you think, Melanie? I don't know.

[00:42:53] That's a tough one because if she at all was willing to forgive him, I think she would not tell her mom because she would not. Initially, I was like, they're so close. I think she would tell her. And then I ended up where you are. I was like, no. She wanted to keep her perfect family together. Right. And if she tells mom, then mom's never going to forget or forgive. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that all assumes that Lacey really knew about the affair. Correct. Correct.

[00:43:23] And Scott then claims in later interviews that he actually told the police about the affair initially on the 24th when Lacey went missing. Why he lied about that, I don't know. It's very easy. Like all of those interviews were recorded. It's really easy to go back and review them. And he made no mention of it. So they had a great marriage. There was nothing wrong. Right. So fast forward to early February. Scott, again, started to, you know, be Scott.

[00:43:50] And he started inquiring with local realtors about selling their house. He had also already sold Lacey's Land Rover SUV. And he had turned Connor's nursery into a storage area, giving all indications that he did not intend for Lacey and Connor to return home. That's so messed up. I mean. That's heartbreaking. I mean, so if we're in February, December 24th, like, we're not even 60 days out. I mean, you're absolutely right.

[00:44:18] And I mean, it also shows like kind of being stupid, like even just from an optics perspective, that is really bad. But I had a question for you ladies. Okay. So I read the home, both of their names was on their mortgage. Can you really sell a home without participation of the other person's names on the paperwork? If there's not like a death certificate or? No, not in Texas.

[00:44:48] You have to have both. If they're both on title, they both have to sign to sell the home. I don't know how it is. I would assume it's the same in California. Yeah, I asked my in-house attorney about this because we were talking about this before the episode. And he was like, unless they have a power of attorney, right? Like you could have some sort of durable power of attorney for your spouse for, you know, business relationships, which it's possible they had because they did have this business together previously.

[00:45:12] Obviously, he's like, without a power of attorney, you would have to have some sort of court order that would allow him to sell without, you know, a death certificate. Right. But that's a great question, Melanie. Yeah. And I don't think anybody would be doing that that quickly. I mean, it just seems very odd. I mean, 60 days. Like that is no time at all in the middle of a crisis. I mean, it's forever and no time at all. How you could even think about moving on.

[00:45:40] But again, to the point, like he had to know they weren't coming back. If you think your wife has been abducted or you think she ran off or any number of things, there's a high possibility you're going to find her and she'll come home. Right. And she's got your son. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So by March, so she went missing December 24th.

[00:46:05] By March, Lacey's disappearance was reclassified from a missing person to a homicide. This was after he tried to sell the house in her car. And now I want to get to something particularly sad. A little bit of warning to our listeners. This is a little hard to hear. So on April 13th, the body of a full-term fetus was found on the shoreline of San Francisco Bay by a couple walking their dog.

[00:46:30] The next day, April 14th, the badly decomposing body of a woman was found a few miles away from where the fetus was found the previous day and nearby the Berkeley Marina where Scott had been fishing on Christmas Eve. The corpse was decapitated and was missing limbs. Now, once the bodies were found, detectives were ready to arrest Scott Peterson for the deaths of Lacey and Connor.

[00:46:54] But they're told by their superiors that they have to wait until the DNA evidence comes back confirming that the bodies found are indeed Lacey and Connor before they make that arrest. So fast forward four days to April 18th. So the detectives head to San Diego where Scott is now staying. And they're just going to sort of watch and surveil until, you know, those DNA results come in. They want to know where he is, what he's doing, so they can be ready to go when they're ready to arrest him.

[00:47:23] But he notices them following him. And he takes them on this like two-hour drive around the area. And the notes to him probably, the police also have a tracker on his car. And they say he's driving really erratically. So Scott says he's on his way to play golf with his dad and brother. But he's just trying to like give the police the chase so that they don't show up at the golf course. Or maybe he thinks it's press.

[00:47:51] He doesn't want the press to show up at the golf course. So that's sort of his excuse for why he's doing what he's doing. Which I mean, I sort of get that. So police, however, are concerned that he's going to make his way to nearby Mexico and cross the border. At which point arresting him is going to be a lot harder. And so they decide to go ahead and make the arrest before the DNA evidence comes in.

[00:48:15] And now when they arrest Scott Peterson, they find in his car camping gear, six pairs of shoes, camping equipment, four cell phones, his brother's like driver's license or ID, because I guess the two of them look alike, his sister's credit card, $15,000 in cash, hiking boots, a picture of him and Lacey, and a dozen Viagra. His hair had been dyed blonde.

[00:48:43] Family says he was headed to play golf, like we said. And he says, look, cops had already met with me when I had blonde hair. I was just trying to get through my daily life without being like constantly recognized. And I'm going to give that a checkmark. I think that's right. If I were in the media and didn't want to be, I would like dye my hair a different color or something. Yeah. He said his mom had given him the $15,000 the day before as a repayment for something.

[00:49:10] And he just hadn't deposited it yet because the day he was arrested was Good Friday. Okay. Little suspicious, but I can see that being plausible. I mean, my mom would never give me $15,000 cash. Yeah. That's weird. Maybe a check. Yeah. The cash part is very odd. He says, I had my brother's ID because I get a discount at the golf course with it. I'm going to call BS on that because he was meeting his brother. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:39] I mean, oftentimes in some of these tourist areas, you can get a locals rate. And so like at some of the famous San Diego courses, I know for a fact you can play it cheaper if you're a local and have like a local address. But once again, he theoretically was meeting his brother. So I'm not sure why he would need that. Yeah. So he goes on to say like, hey, look, I'm driving a red Mercedes. If I was on the run, this is not the car I would be driving. It's not exactly like sly.

[00:50:10] Right. Everybody's going to see me in this red Mercedes. And I just left my hiking boots there. Like no big deal. So he sort of has an answer for everything, which is typical Scott Peterson. Right. So after being charged with the murder, Scott decides, you know, hey, I should hire an attorney. He hires celebrity attorney Mark Garagos and pleads not guilty. Now, the trial begins in June of 2004. So we are now two and a half years past. Well, is that right?

[00:50:38] I guess really one and a half because it happened at the end of 2022. So we're one and a half years later. And it includes five months of testimony. Interestingly enough, the jurors were not sequestered. And while there was a change of venue, they only went, Mel, do you remember it was like 60 miles-ish? I mean, it wasn't that far away. It was still in the nearby California area. It just, they did move it away from the specific town. But it was national news.

[00:51:08] Yeah. So it's like, yes, you're right. How far are they going to go? But I do think it's interesting they didn't sequester the jury. Yeah, totally. I mean, it was a long trial. Five months of testimony. I guess that's true. It would be a lot to be away from your family for five months. I mean, I'd give it a shot. Depends on how nice the hotel is. All right. So the prosecution, Elena, argued that Scott killed Lacey the night of the 23rd. So that would be after they had gone to visit her sister at the salon. Remember?

[00:51:38] And then he spent that evening cleaning up. His motive, detective said, he just didn't want to be tied down with a wife and a kid. He wanted to be free to date and go out and live his life. Now, the defense who, you know, Mark Garagos in hindsight might be most famous for representing Scott Peterson. But he represented Michael Jackson. Lots of other like notable celebrities and big names. He said, look, my client isn't a nice guy. You're not going to like him. He was a horrible husband. He was a jerk.

[00:52:08] Like we're admitting to all of that. But he's not a murderer. Plus, there is zero forensic evidence tying him to the scene or the crime. Investigators didn't find blood in the house. They didn't find blood in his truck. They found nothing on the boat. And Garagos says, we don't even really know when Lacey died. If like some people claim they saw her walking the dog while Scott was at the marina, then there's no way he could have killed her.

[00:52:36] In his defense of Scott Peterson, Garagos notes that the computer forensics showed that someone was on the Peterson's home computer the morning of the 24th looking for sunflower umbrellas. And it was sort of widely well known that Lacey loved sunflowers, even going so far as to have a tattoo of one. So he claimed she was at the house after Scott left and something happened at that point.

[00:53:02] Now, this evidence made the prosecution actually have to change their timeline of when they thought Lacey was killed. Right. Because they said we think she was killed the 23rd. But then in court, he says, well, on the morning of the 24th, somebody was shopping for sunbrella umbrellas or sunflower umbrellas at their house. And so like mid trial, the prosecution has to change their whole timeline of events.

[00:53:27] Be like, OK, well, maybe she was killed the morning of the 24th, which is typically like not a good look for the prosecution. Right. Because they would have already had that evidence. They would have already known that. Well, their whole argument was that timeline and how could it all happen so quickly. But they would have presumably known. They did not know that until trial. So the prosecution did not know that they were going to find this evidence until trial. Oh, OK. It was like a gotcha moment. Gotcha.

[00:53:57] OK. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, at this point, Scott's defense is feeling really good about providing the jury with enough evidence that there is some reasonable doubt. And they were thinking, like, maybe he's not going to be convicted. And indeed, it seemed like that's the way everything was going until Amber Fry testified. But she didn't say anything new. It was just kind of to connect the pieces that this could have been a motive and just see what she had to say. Because she was already in the news and already had her own representation at that point.

[00:54:26] And everyone knew of her. Everyone knew of her. Her representation was really great. She had Gloria Steinem. Oh, yeah. No. Right? No. Gloria Aldridge. Thank you. Aldridge. Can you edit that out? I can. Gloria Aldridge. She had Gloria Aldridge. Gloria Steinem was a cool person, though. Right. But not the one I'm thinking of. The other one. Didn't we talk about Gloria Aldridge? Wasn't she the owner of the house in L.A. again? That there...

[00:54:55] It wasn't her. I know you're talking about the one where the family left. Yeah. Yeah. Another Christmas. It wasn't her, but it was another well-known female attorney. But I think we have talked about her before at some point. Oh, we'll have to talk about deja vu. Okay. Well, anyway, she did a great job because she said, you know, people were offering Amber Fry tons and tons of money for interviews. But she was like, she has to protect her testimony.

[00:55:20] And so she advised her not to give any interviews until after she testified. And I think that made a huge impact on the jury because, you know, to know something in the ether, right, is different than to hear somebody tell you about it. And just to hear his callous disregard for his wife, you know, he tells her that, hey, I've never been married. And then he changes the story and he's like, well, I was married, but my wife died.

[00:55:49] And this is my first Christmas without her. You know, to hear her say that out loud, I think was really impactful for the jury. Right. And I guess by having her take the stand, they could play the recordings that she had. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And just to, you know, Melanie and her Google fingertips, Gloria Aldred's daughter, Lisa Bloom, had bought the murder house. Oh, that's what it was. Thank you so much. Appreciate that. Yeah. Deep dive, Melanie. I know. Strikes again.

[00:56:18] I'm sorry, Mel. I did not have the negative connotations when I gave you that. I didn't say it was negative. It's a connotation. It's a connotation. A parallel you can draw. Yeah. All right. So on November 12th, 2004, the jury reaches a verdict in the Scott Peterson trial. Scott was found guilty of first degree murder for Lacey's death and second degree murder for Connor's death and was subsequently sentenced to death. Now, appeals started very quickly thereafter.

[00:56:44] And in 2020, the death sentence was thrown out by the California Supreme Court. Were they doing like, they just got rid of all the death penalty cases, right? I feel like that sounds really familiar. But because of that, like a conviction review was required. And so in December of 2021, his conviction was resentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Okay.

[00:57:07] Now, I have always thought that if Scott did not kill Lacey and Connor, he must be the unluckiest person on earth to have his wife and son's body wash up like right where he was on the day of the crime. In a location that, remember, is over like an hour and a half to two hours away from their house. Yes. But one podcast I listened to brought up a really good counterpoint. Okay. And they said, you know, within days of her going missing, his whereabouts was very well publicized.

[00:57:37] People, we were, they were trying to establish that he was where he said he was, right? So it was like, hey, if you were at the marina, please let us know if you saw him. And so it is possible that if somebody else abducted Lacey, they could have, you know, discarded her body there for lack of a better phrase, just in order to frame him for the murder. Okay. Yeah.

[00:58:04] That's, I feel like that's reaching, but I, yeah. But what does Scott and his defense team say? Okay. So that's, that's a good question. So there are a couple other theories. Now, besides the confusion in the timeline, right, based on the testimony of witnesses believing they either had seen Lacey walking the dog on Christmas Eve morning or not, there was also a neighborhood burglary around the time of Lacey's disappearance. Now, this house is literally across the street from the Peterson's house.

[00:58:32] And I Google mapped it because everything I heard was like a burglary in the neighborhood. But then one documentary I watched was a news reporter. And he was like, I was literally on the front lawn of the Peterson's home at like 430 a.m. If something had happened, I would have seen it, which made me think like, oh, this is not just in the neighborhood. This is really close. And indeed, the house is across the street from the Peterson's.

[00:58:59] So the question is like, did maybe these thieves break into the Peterson's house thinking people were gone? Like maybe they saw Scott leave. And then they broke in not realizing Lacey was there. Were they the ones that let the dog out? Or was like Lacey walking the dog and saw something happening and they abducted her in order to keep her from, you know, reporting them?

[00:59:23] In a 2024 interview in Rolling Stone magazine, Scott says that there were a lot of people in that burglary. He said in a video call from the Mule Creek State Prison in California where he's serving that life sentence without parole. I believe that Lacey went over there to see what was going on. And that's when she was taken. Now, during trial, the Peterson neighbor, Susan Medina, testified about her home's burglary. She said while their neighborhood was considered a safe family area,

[00:59:52] Covina Avenue was used as a thoroughfare by transients between a large park there and a nearby homeless shelter. Medina testified that she and her husband had left town midday on December 24, 2002, the day Lacey vanished. When they returned two days later, they found that their door had been kicked in, their bedroom ransacked, and valuable items including two guns, a locked safe, and money were missing.

[01:00:18] Despite this coincidence, police said that they captured the burglars and that they were unrelated and that Lacey had been murdered even before the Medinas left midday on Christmas Eve. The police think the break-in happened on the 26th, not the 24th. But that's where the reporter said, Hey, I was standing on the lawn on the 26th covering this case. He makes a really compelling argument. He's like, I was a junior news reporter. I was working the holiday shift.

[01:00:47] Somebody calls and they're like, Hey, you need to go here. He was like, I was there. I was ready. You know, I was like, it could have been my big break. Right. He was like, it would have been really obvious if people were carting a safe out of the house across the street. Yeah. I mean, that makes a strong point. Like really out of any home to burglarize, are you going to do one where there's obviously a police presence or media crews by there? So I'm not sure, you know, the argument at the 24th to the 26th, how much that can hold water.

[01:01:17] But I did read that these suspects were, well, they were giving them at least five or six names, but they did arrest two of them. And that these suspects were actually really cooperative. I mean, they didn't turn themselves in, but they were very nervous that they were going to be associated with Lacey's disappearance. They seemed a little bit of odd criminals. Like one of them didn't have a driver's license.

[01:01:44] The other one had to borrow, you know, a car from his mom to commit the burglary. It was an odd. And I feel like, you know, to Scott's credit, they did not publicize enough. It seems like that there would have been maybe more research done about for something across the street. But you also sort of think, okay, they had to have researched that. They had to have, you know, followed this lead. Knock on wood, I hope. Yeah.

[01:02:10] And another neighbor, Diana Campos, she was interviewed by investigators for the Petersons, right? They're out there like trying to find other suspects and that kind of thing. And she said she saw Lacey walking the dog midday on Christmas Eve. And she also saw two men following her. The dog was barking and the two men yelled for her to, quote, shut the dog up. Dang. Yeah.

[01:02:34] So now let's fast forward a very long time to January of 2024, last year, like a year ago from now, when the Innocence Project gets involved in the Peterson case. And we've actually seen the Innocence Project get involved in like several California cases recently. Were they the ones that brought the Menendez stuff too, Mel? Do you remember? I do not know. I think that's right. But don't hold me to that.

[01:03:00] Anyway, the Los Angeles Innocence Project is famously known for working for free for wrongfully convicted inmates. And it says it's investigating Scott Peterson's, quote, claim of actual innocence. I remember us talking about this because in my head, the Innocence Project has this really like esteemed reputation. And so I was discussing it with my husband when it came up in one of the other cases. And he was like, yes, that is correct from what you're thinking.

[01:03:30] But in the recent years, it has very much changed to a little bit more high profile kind of. I mean, they're still doing some good work, but they're definitely looking at some bigger profile cases. Because essentially, when DNA came about, the Innocence Project was able to run through like so many cases that there's just not as many out there for them to investigate. Gotcha. Yeah.

[01:03:58] I'm sure social media plays a hand in that too. Yeah. And I'm sure I'm putting words in my husband's mouth. That was my recollection of what he said. He probably said it a lot more eloquently. I'm certain. Yeah. I am too. He's the one that should have the podcast, not me. Anyway, okay. So they have asked the judge to reconsider testing evidence that could change the course of the case.

[01:04:21] Specifically, they have asked to test a bloody mattress that was found in a burned van in Modesto the morning after Lacey disappeared, as well as a strip of duct tape that was stuck to Lacey's pants. Peterson's attorneys want to explore the possibility that a connection exists between Lacey, the burglary, and a Christmas Day van fire in another part of town. They want to explore the theory that Lacey was abducted and taken away in an orange van while walking the dog.

[01:04:50] And in fact, the orange van had been found burning less than a mile away from where Lacey disappeared by the Modesto fire department on Christmas Day morning, but it was never investigated for a connection. Based on all of this, we may have more updates on the case coming soon. So that's sort of a not-so-quick recap of the Lacey Peterson case. It sounds like you covered everything. I'm sure I did not, but thank you for that. Well, yeah. I mean, everything I recall about it. Okay, good. Yeah.

[01:05:20] Well, do you want to know what happened to the house? Mm-hmm. Okay. Because let's be honest now, that's what differs us from every other podcast out there. That's true. No other podcast will tell you what happened to the house. Oh, we need a quote of Melanie saying that. That's funny. Maybe with some super cheesy star graphs or something like it. All right. So according to people, the 1949 bungalow-style house was purchased by Gary Roberts for $390,000

[01:05:48] following Lacey and her husband-born son Connor's murders. That was more than double the $177,000 price that the Petersons had first paid for it. Now, by 2006, Gary had been trying to sell the house for five months and was facing foreclosure when an unnamed married couple stepped in with interest. They later bought it for just under its $350,000 asking price. Why are you shaking your head? I don't know. I don't know.

[01:06:17] The married couple buying the house just kind of creeps me out. I wouldn't. Oh, you wouldn't buy it as a married couple. You would think it would have bad juju. Yes. Okay. Yeah, I can see you having that thought. Okay. So the home sold again in 2007. Yes, Melanie? I'm sorry. I have to tell you something random about Gary Roberts. Oh, yes, please. So anyway, he was a realtor. Oh, really?

[01:06:44] And his bid was accepted after he sent Lacey's mother, Sharon Rocha, and Scott's father, Lee Peterson, a letter praising the home's charm as exactly what I've been looking for all this time, and I will honor this home and plan to keep it in my family for many years to come. Oh, wow. So he lied. Well. Or maybe it was just, you know, he had a change of fortune and needed to sell his house. Well, yeah. Yeah.

[01:07:11] I heard at one time he had some issues. There was also news articles that Jerry Peterson, the realtor who bought the house, also found Roberts. Gary Roberts. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Get them confused. He, I don't know if maybe he was also wanting to have some publicity, but when he bought the house, he found a 10-inch knife in a closet with red stains on the handle.

[01:07:41] And so investigators say the discovery came just days after a tabloid about a pregnant woman having her throat cut. But the police said the investigators found no obvious signs of blood or tissue on the knife. But, you know, Jerry Roberts had gone to the press about this. So I don't know. I'm back with you, Alana. I think he's not cool. I don't like it. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought the whole thing was a little odd. But the fact that a realtor bought it, I don't know.

[01:08:10] I feel like maybe he was trying to capitalize. Well, and interestingly enough, there's been a lot of discussion and some states no longer allow those letters to the owner because they're concerned that it violates some fair housing laws. It's just a bad idea. I don't, I like it. See, it's just too, it's too gray. Like if someone loses out and they wrote the letter, he's like, well, you could tell I was such and such and you didn't want, I don't, I don't, I've, I have had clients receive them

[01:08:37] and I will present them and I have had clients write them and I've told them my thoughts on it and they'd still want to, and I'll honor whatever they want, obviously, but I don't like it. Yeah. I thought that was sort of out nowadays because of unfair housing practices that somebody, it could be of an ethnicity that they don't want to sell it to or something like that. I totally get all that. Like I just had clients write a letter.

[01:09:02] Um, it was an elderly lady who was selling a home she'd been in for a long time and my clients were the perfect fit for this house. And I was like, you need to write a handwritten letter. Like you would do old school and just tell her what she would do with the house. Like, cause she wants to sell it to somebody that's not going to bulldoze it. That's going to, you know, honor the charm. Yeah. I think maybe. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's, it's, it's telling the seller who you are.

[01:09:31] But I think you have to know if it's in your client's best interest or not. Right. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I just don't think it's a great practice to engage in for, for them, for their protection. I can see that. Yeah. Okay. Well, I digressed a little bit, but I thought that was interesting real estate. Oh, totally. For sure. All right. So Gary, the, we're going to call him the shady realtor. Okay. We need to find out if he's still in business. Can we do that? Yeah. Okay. Let's do that.

[01:10:01] Okay. Anyway, he sells it to this unnamed married couple and they bought it for just under $350,000. So he lost the money on it because he bought it for $390,000. And then it sold again in 2007. So like just a year later for $280,000. Dang. So this is not doing well. And then in 2013 for $180,000. It's a rough market right there. Yeah, totally.

[01:10:26] Most recently, however, the house was listed for $459,888 in 2022. That is a random number. That's super random. Is that like somebody that does numerology? Maybe. How do you come up with that number? I don't know. That's weird. Like I'll do like. And that was the listing number. That's exactly right. Yeah. I could see maybe if it was what was bought for because there are some negotiations or that there were some repairs that need to be made. For $2? There's $2 worth of like negotiations somewhere?

[01:10:56] I'm like, yeah. I would do. Wow. I mean, we've both done $459,500 or $459,900. Yeah. But not that. We'll look up the number. Maybe eight means something. Oh, that's a good idea. Mel might do some Googling while I read you the listing description. So it says, if fun in the sun and entertaining poolside are on your list of must-haves, this is the home you've been looking for. Located in the much desired La Loma neighborhood, this beautiful 3-2.

[01:11:24] Is move-in ready and waiting for you. All caps. Exclamation point. Gorgeous stone countertops and backsplashes in the remodeled kitchen along with a six-burner gas stove, plenty of storage, and a built-in wine rack to make this a home chef's dream. Even the refrigerator is included. Exclamation point. Enjoy this included courtyard filled with lush flowers, grass, and cultured bushes. What the hell? And that was my commentary, not in the description in case that was not clear.

[01:11:51] In the backyard, you'll find the refreshing and sparkling pool, which also includes an inviting outdoor furniture and a barbecue. And just around the corner is the relaxing hot tub for soaking and enjoying starlit nights. This home has been upgraded with solar panels to reduce electrical costs and is fully owned. No lease or payments to take over. Recently painted interior in peaceful neutral colors is one last chore for you. Welcome home! Exclamation point. I gather you don't like the exclamation point. Hold on.

[01:12:21] I'm going to count them real quick. One, two, three, four, five. There are five exclamation points in this description. You can get, you have one. You have one. That's it. I'm an exclamation point person. Yes. Y'all read my text messages. I put lots. And I wouldn't even put one, I don't think. No. One is plenty. Yeah. We sound kind of snotty. I know. I'm sorry. I am snotty. It's mostly you. It is mostly me.

[01:12:50] You're just guilty by association. I have a tendency to write a lot of exclamation points, but I would like to think I would not be doing it in a business, which, I mean, this is a listing. It's a business thing. I think I would do it more my text messages to you. Like, it was great! Exclamation point. I'm all for that. Do that. Send that out. If this is something that you can edit, it should not have more than one. Mm-hmm. Can we agree on that? Yeah, but you also had a problem with the all caps U. Just saying.

[01:13:20] It's waiting for you! It's scary when you say it. I know. It's like, anyway. Whatever. I should not be giving this description any grief because it did its job. This home sold after being on the market for only six days. Now, I will remind you, this was 2022. We did love that 2022 market. And it sold for approximately $50,000 over the list price. So, good job for the agent. Yeah, totally.

[01:13:49] As much crap as I just gave her. She did her job. Yeah. All right. Really, really well. Of course, the listing did not mention the Peterson case and realtors and or the owners wouldn't have had to. Like, we don't know. It would be almost impossible for a seller to know if a murder occurred in the house or not because we really don't know when or where or even how Lacey Peterson died.

[01:14:16] However, you know, with the publicity, I think it would have been hard for anybody not to know that this was the Peterson house. I think, I mean, we've talked about this before, but the more I think about it, I would not buy a house without, like, Googling it. Not that I would actually be expecting there to have been a crime that occurred. I'd be curious, who owns it? Oh. Sorry. That was one of those fire watch alerts. Oh, are you signed up for your brother's house? Is everything okay? Yeah. I get it for all now the LA region.

[01:14:46] Okay. But that's all night long. I'm hearing these noises. No wonder you're not sleeping well. Yeah. Um, and I, uh, I would just Google it because I'd be like, I, you know, I like to know things, you know, what's the neighborhood like, you know, do they have kids? You know, what's, yeah. So maybe I'm a little too, um, you know, Melanie detective, deep dive Melanie. But I would definitely look it up. But I think it would be real quick. You would find out about the publicity regarding this home.

[01:15:17] All right. Well, we hope that all of you found today's episode interesting, despite my judginess. And if you like the show and want to support the podcast, please remember to like and subscribe. Tell all your friends. We really appreciate it. Um, and of course you can also support the show by shopping some of our favorite products at crimeestate.com slash shop. It's been so fun to put our holiday list together and we'll be, um, by the time you're listening to this, there'll be some fun new lists for spring out. So go check it out. Should do Valentine's.

[01:15:47] Oh, that's a good idea. Mother's Day gifts. Mother's Day gifts. Oh, they are not. We're a little far away from that though right now. I know. Unless you're a plan aheader. Let's be honest now. I was buying Christmas gifts the week before. I know. I know. I was like, what were you going to say? You look, you're looking at me like you want to say something. Oh, I was going to say, we, we didn't do that. Would you buy it? Would you sell it? Oh, I skipped. So we want to, we can, well, I could piece it back in where this is.

[01:16:16] You could, or you could just, you know, do it right now. Yes. So people can see how we really live. So ladies, it's time for the question of every episode and I want to say it to you guys. Would you live there? Would you list it? You want to go first? Sure. No, I would not live there. Even though we don't know what actually happened. Like that's just real icky. Everything that happened was real icky. I would list it. I think. Yeah, I think I'd list it.

[01:16:45] I would list it. I would not live there. I also wouldn't live there and I would live in most of the houses. Yeah. But I think it's the not knowing that would bother me. Like, did it happen here? Did it not? What room was it in? And like the unknown would be a concern. I would list it now. I would not have listed it for Scott Peterson. Oh, no. I wouldn't have even gone. No. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Yeah.

[01:17:12] I mean, my gut is, yeah, I'm not like into living there. And anything with kids, I'm always much more, I mean, reticent. I also think, you know, I was thinking about this over the break. I'm like, you know, what drives it? And part of it is if it's an amazing property, I'll be honest, I can be swayed a little bit. And this is a nice house, but it's not like this amazing property. But I think also is, you know, I'm more apt to say yes to even bad crimes if they were

[01:17:39] like historic or 50, 100 years ago kind of things. Something that is in my lifetime that I remember happening, it seems a little too fresh for that one. And I think that pregnancy, murders of children, families are definitely things that I'm more hypersensitive to. And in the listed, I kind of am with Heather here. Like, I mean, obviously, I'm not a realtor.

[01:18:03] But it seems like it would have been way more problematic and hard work right away. Now, you know, several houses being sold in between now. Yeah, 20 years later. Yeah, fine. But like right away, you're going to be dealing with all the people that just want to go looky-loo and look at the property and it seems like a lot of work. Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. What do you have anything you want to add before we wrap up?

[01:18:31] We can call her Double D Melanie. Oh, well, that is not. That's the pot calling the kettle black. Not anymore. Oh, oh. All right. Well, we hope you all will tune in for next week's episode where Elena has something fascinating. Do you want to tease it? Sure.

[01:18:51] This one, this house, actually this block had one murder and two suicide attempts and one suicide on the same block. Okay. See, once again, anything that you're going to cover is going to be like vibey, spooky. Yeah. Hey. Yeah. Okay. Well, we hope you all will tune in next week. Bye. Bye. Hey, y'all. Thanks for listening and being a part of our Crime Estate family.

[01:19:19] If you're curious about today's featured Crime Estate, you can find additional photos and details from today's episode online at CrimeEstate.com or on Facebook and Instagram by following at CrimeEstatePodcast. Have a Crime Estate we should cover? Let us know. Shoot us an email at CrimeEstatePodcast at gmail.com. Until next week.