Bohemian Tragedy: The Life and Death of Roseanne Quinn

[00:00:05] At the intersection of true crime and real estate, you'll find Crime Estate. I'm Heather. And my name is Elena. As real estate agents and true crime junkies, we view crimes through a different lens. So walk through the door of some of the most notorious true crimes with us and discover how sometimes the scene of the crime has its own story to tell. Hey y'all, thanks for joining us on another episode of Crime Estate. I'm Heather. I'm

[00:00:32] joined as always by my dear friend and fellow realtor Elena and Melanie, our most fabulous producer, who if you listen to the show regularly, you know, brings all of the fun facts. Hey ladies. Hey, it's been a crazy week. I am so tired. We've been slammed early spring. Yeah. So we're recording this with today's the day after Valentine's Day. So the 15th, the spring market started really early and I'm here for it. Yeah, totally. I'm not here for the cold

[00:00:58] weather. No. Because that Groundhog Day and the weather just blasted back, the Arctic air. Because we had a nice couple of days. I was literally in my pool. Yeah. A week ago. We saw those pictures of you in the pool and I was thinking, hmm, I don't recall being invited over. So I just feel like the invite's always there. Yeah. The invite is always open, ladies. Oh, no. Absolutely. My husband this morning said he saw a funny meme that in Texas, they're

[00:01:27] just throwing out lottery numbers as our temperatures of the day. Oh, that's funny. Because it has just been up and down and up and down and, you know, 80 degrees and then now a polar vortex on Tuesday. It's crazy. Yeah, totally. But you both had husbands out of town last week too, so that didn't help. Yeah. I mean, it's just been busy. Like work's been busy. Melanie, wasn't your husband like in a different country all week last week? Not this time. He was in California the last couple of weeks. But yeah, I mean, I'm always

[00:01:56] exhausted, but I always look forward to taking time, a little time for ourselves and, you know, recording with both of you. And it's sort of our guilty pleasure to be able to hang out together. Yeah. So I know the story is really fascinating. Something, a story, I think I said earlier that, you know, most people don't know, but it was very famous of its time period. Yeah. So let's jump right on in. Okay. So today I'm taking us back to 1970s New York,

[00:02:24] and we're talking about the brutal murder of 28-year-old Roseanne Quinn. Her death inspired the 1977 film Looking for Mr. Goodbar, starring Diane Keaton as Roseanne. Roseanne, a teacher at St. Joseph's School for the Death, was raised in the Bronx, but at age 11, her parents moved her and three siblings to Mine Hill Township near Dover, New Jersey. At the age of 13, she spent a year in the hospital due to contracting polio. The disease left her body scarred and her spine

[00:02:50] curved, causing her to work with, excuse me, causing her to walk with a slight, slight, slight, slight limp for the rest of her life. She grew up in a very devout Catholic home, graduating from Moore's Catholic High School. And according to an inscription in her high school yearbook, she was, quote, easy to meet and, quote, nice to know. That's nice. It's really nice. After graduating in 1969, she studied education at Newark State College,

[00:03:15] and from there, she took that teaching position at St. Joseph's, where she worked with deaf eight-year-old students. It is said that she was a devoted and beloved teacher. She would often bring her class breakfast because many of them had to take long bus rides to attend the school. That's sweet. She sounds lovely. Very, very lovely. Quinn lived in an apartment at 253 West 72nd Street on the Upper West Side, bordered by Central Park on the East, the Lincoln Center on the South, and Columbia University on

[00:03:41] the North. It was, and still is considered, the Bohemian sister to its New York City counterpart, the Upper East Side. While the Upper East Side was known for its wealthy residents, posh shops, and fancy restaurants, the Upper East Side was known as the more intellectual, artistic, and edgy portion of the city. Today, though the Upper West Side has been taken over by gentrification and most of the grit has been replaced by upscale dining, high-end retail, luxury apartments, and a low crime rate. But in Quinn's Upper West Side,

[00:04:11] where progressive spirit gave home to writers, artists, and academics, it also gave way to crime and urban decline. Yeah. And, you know, we did another episode that took place on the Upper West Side. I went back and looked it up. It was episode five with Shelley Covlin. God, that was such a long time ago. But that was a really good story. Yeah. And so if you aren't familiar with that part of New York City, think of the Only Murders in the Building show that takes place on the Upper West Side. And they sort of, you know,

[00:04:40] they're artsy, they're intellectual, they're a little bit all edgy too. So yeah. But also, I don't think you can talk about 1970s New York without talking about like how notorious the crime was at the time. You know, prostitutes and pimps were prevalent in Times Square. People didn't walk through Central Park because they were afraid they'd get mugged. I mean, it's a very different New York than what we know today. Totally. You're so right about that. I don't feel like we can tell a story about 1970s New York,

[00:05:08] and especially this story without exploring a little bit about the societal changes the nation was undergoing. There was a lot happening in this time. Spurred by the civil rights movement of the 60s, the women's rights revolution was burgeoning. Women of this time were beginning to explore their independence through where they lived, who they associated with, how they dressed, how they raised their kids, how they partied, and who they partied with. In many retellings of Roseanne Quinn, it is often a cautionary tale, a tale of how a young woman should have behaved and

[00:05:35] should have acted. It's so blame the victim, right? Totally. And I, it took me a while to write this story because I kept getting mad and like slamming the computer down. Like that's messed up. When you told us you like started it over like three times. I did. I did. Several, I was like, should I go there? I'm going to go there. Should I go there? I'm going to go there. So it was a lot of that back and forth. I mean, you know, this on one hand is not that, you know, long ago. Some people

[00:06:02] in the room might've been born in the 70s, but, you know, but yet at the same time, it was very much a different time period. And New York, you know, was, it is, you know, in many ways, the capital of the world. But in the 1970s, there was, I mean, just a juxtaposition between still all the money and, um, and being the center of quote unquote power in the world culture. But it was also really

[00:06:29] shady and schemey and dirty. Uh, you guys know that my son loves movies and 1970s is his period of like a passion. And so for his inner, um, international baccalaureate, um, project, you have to write a 5,000 word essay, like with lots of research and it's on anything you want, as long as you're really passionate and can go deep and long. And he's writing it on, um, how the, the culture of the

[00:06:59] 1970s, um, is shown in movies and how it influenced to the movies with everything going on in the race relations and the politics and culture. So I just thought it was really interesting in line with this. We should have read his research before the podcast. Oh yeah. So I mean, like a lot of times we'll be watching these 1970s movies and you know, they're dirty and dark and yeah, he loves it. Oh, that's amazing. He needs to watch Looking for Mr. Goodman. I'm going to go home and tell him about it. Cool. So we're going to touch more on all of this later, but let me tell you about the 23

[00:07:27] story apartment building that Roseanne lived in. 253 West 72nd Street was at the time somewhat run down as a pre-war building that housed single professionals in pursuit of affordable housing. Her 15th floor studio apartment was modest, but suited her well enough. It was sparsely furnished and littered with teaching material. The building was advertised as quote, New York's newest and smartest midtown hotel offering quote, Arist, Arist, no, don't tell me because I practiced in my head

[00:07:54] multiple times. Aristocratic, aristocratic. Yeah. Aristocratic air and quote, perfect accessibility. The building was originally designed to be a residential hotel, Hotel West Pierre, but by the 1970s, it was more of a standard rental building. And while her studio was small and sparse, it gave way to what she desired independence. Roseanne chose a 250 square foot, one room with kitchenette because of the increased security of the doorman building and its 72nd West End Avenue

[00:08:22] location. While I could not find the exact amount that Quinn paid in rent based on rental trends of the area. And of that time, a studio apartment like hers would have likely cost around 150 to 200 per month adjusted for inflation. That would be roughly a thousand to 1500 in today's money. I mean, I think that sounds super affordable for the time. I mean, a thousand to 1500 in New York today seems really affordable. Just because there's inflation. Yeah. You're not getting an apartment

[00:08:51] in this building today for a thousand. Yeah. I'll be for sure. Three thousand. Well, I think you told us when we were chatting about this earlier, like the median income in New York at the time was like $10,000 a year. So I think that puts all of that into perspective as well. Like that was a large portion of her salary going to her housing. For sure. I guess as much as things change, some things stay the same and housing affordability is

[00:09:16] still a major issue in this country. But back to Roseanne, like many young single professionals in New York City, she embraced city life, working by day and frequenting the neighborhood restaurants and bars by night. Roseanne's behavior was no different than so many of her peers. After teaching, she would walk to a few of the neighborhood establishments to read and drink. Some nights she sat alone reading and sipping wine. Other times she would drink Johnny Walker Red and socialize with the other patrons. And I really feel that. That's us in a nutshell, I feel like.

[00:09:46] Yes, absolutely. And think about it. She was going home to this like tiny little apartment. There's nothing to do there. She probably just took her book down to the local bar, had a glass of wine, and she wanted to be social. I mean, that's the thing when you're living in New York City in these tiny apartments. I'm not an expert, but I've been in New York a lot. I have friends who live in the city. And the world is your playground. Like, you know, my girlfriend who lives in her two-bedroom,

[00:10:13] very nice, but with two kids' apartment in the city, you know, they consider Central Park where they go play with their kids. And, you know, they go out to eat all the time. I mean, because there's only so much you can spend in a small box. Right. Well, and I've had this come up with clients who, like, like we do, like move out of your house. You have to rent something while you're remodeling or building or whatever. And most likely you're renting something much smaller than where you were living, right? You're

[00:10:41] just trying to find something easy for a couple months. You don't want to pay a lot of money for it. And I've often had the conversation, like, look, I don't want you to spend more than you're comfortable spending. But if you go with this teeny tiny little thing, just know you're going to go out to dinner every night. Like you're going to go see the movie at the movies. You're not going to sit on the couch and watch free movies. Like just factor in the extra cost of living from the fact that you don't want to be home. Right. Yeah, you're right. That's what Roseanne was doing. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

[00:11:11] So on the evening of January 1st, 1973, Roseanne found herself at WN Tweeds at 250 West 72nd Street, the bar across the street from her apartment. It was named after corrupt politician Boss Tweed. I love that. I love that name too. I feel like you don't hear a lot of boss names anymore. I feel like, you know, that's what you would hear like in the 19th century, you know, crime boss. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Boss killed. Yeah.

[00:11:38] So it was seemingly like any other evening for Quinn, but when she did not show up to school two days later, the school principal sent a colleague to her apartment at 253 West 72nd to check on her well-being. Not showing up or calling was very out of character for the responsible Quinn. So we know she went out on January 1st. January 2nd was probably still a school holiday. And then she doesn't show up to work on January 3rd. And the principal's like something's wrong. Right. Right. Yeah. Okay.

[00:12:06] So the next part is going to be difficult. So multiple trigger warnings and I can almost feel you both tense up. Like the room just kind of got tense. So after not receiving an answer to knocking on the apartment door, the building superintendent was called to open the door to the home. The fellow teacher found Roseanne Quinn laid out across a fold-out bed naked and stabbed. She had been stabbed 18 times, six times in the neck and 12 times in the stomach. A candle had been inserted inside of her and she had been beaten with a metal bust of herself and a bathrobe cover

[00:12:35] her body. An autopsy would later reveal that she had not been sexually assaulted. When the police were called, they found that there were little items to work on in terms of leads. There were no fingerprints found in the home nor in the elevator and neighbors reported that neither, they neither heard nor saw anything out of the ordinary. Though neighbors and acquaintances were quick to point out that the building lacked security and that Roseanne was well-liked, but that she quote, was a type of girl who would have a guy in if he brought her home.

[00:13:01] So with only these sparse clues, the only thing police could do was came with the neighborhood. I know. I know. I don't like it. So they first stopped at the Copper Hatch, the bar right next to Quinn's apartment in a bar that she visited two to three times a week. Employees there reported to police that she had come in in the early morning of Tuesday, January 2nd with several people from WM Tweeds. After speaking with Steve Resnick, the owner of Tweeds, they learned that she had come in with a group of people

[00:13:29] at around 9 or 10 that evening. Resnick also noted that while he did recognize some of the people she was with, there was one person he did not recognize. So he suggested the police speak to the bartender who had been waiting on them that night. The bartender mentioned that there were two men who were unfamiliar to her that night. One of them left shortly after arriving with the group and the other told her his name was Charlie Smith and that he was in town from Chicago looking for work. And she described him as blonde, big, and good looking. And that made me giggle a

[00:13:57] little bit. I've never worked in a bar, but I feel like that's how I remember people. Like blonde, big, good looking. Freckles, big teeth, long hair. I mean, is that how you remember people at open houses? Yeah, probably sort of the same. The little nuggets that they give me. Yeah, I'll be like, oh, that's the one that's super pregnant and had a toddler in tow or had the long braided hair. Right, exactly. Yeah. So yeah, we sort of do the same thing.

[00:14:23] And so I just want to circle back. So she was kind of bar hopping right in her neighborhood, which, you know, one is apt to do. And she was with someone she'd known for a long time. No, she was with a group of people she'd just met. Okay. And Resnick, the owner of the bar, had known her for a long time. I know it got kind of yucky on the speech.

[00:14:49] Okay, okay. So the owner of the bar was friends with her and she was with two people that they did not know. Correct. They did not. I guess the two people knew each other. Right. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So from there, the police were able to release a composite sketch of who they were calling a possible witness, Charlie Smith. On January 6th, Gary Guest picked up the morning paper and saw

[00:15:14] the composite sketch with a company description, white male, 28 to 32, six feet tall, 165 pounds, light complexion. And while that description sounds pretty generic, Gary picked it up and thought, hey, it looks and sounds a lot like me. That's not the way to begin a day. Heck no. And I am showing the, for those of us who are watching this on YouTube, I am showing a picture of the sketch. And I mean, it looks like a white, long, oval-faced gentleman with short hair. I mean, it's very generic. Yeah.

[00:15:44] It could be a lot of people. But can you imagine opening up the paper and seeing something that looks like you? Crazy. Also, I wonder if all our listeners know what a newspaper is. Oh, sure. We have some young listeners. Yeah. Well, didn't you have to explain why Ducato, a listener, the other day? Oh, yes. Yes. Thank you for listening. We appreciate it. Yes, thank you. I mean, we are just educating the youth of tomorrow. Yeah. All right. So he picks this up and then what happens?

[00:16:12] Yes. So two weeks later, after discussing the situation with friends and his therapist, Gary finally went to the police with his lawyer and relayed what happened that night in January of 1973. I mean, I guess it's better late than never. Yeah. He turned to take a sweet time. And I love that he talked to his therapist. I know. I know. I mean, that was very modern for the 1970s. Yeah, you're right. You're right. So under the protection of immunity, Gary told police that he was at WM Tweed that night

[00:16:39] drinking with his friend, John Wayne Wilson, or as he introduced himself to the bartender, Charlie Smith, drinking and socializing. They came to find themselves getting acquainted with Roseanne. And when Gary Guest decided to head home, John Wayne Wilson stayed with Roseanne. Gary relayed that Wilson, his friend of two years, took her home that night, killed her, ransacked a place and make it look like a robbery gone bad, showered, wiped his prints and fled the scene before the bustling city woke up.

[00:17:06] So he knew some very intimate details about what happened. It's not just like, oh, this sort of looks like me. It's like, oh, now we're caught. Right. Maybe I should turn myself in. Exactly. Exactly. More like a CYA, I think. Probably. Yeah. He did, in fact, know all of the things that happened because two days before the sketch of Gary Guest's reign in the neighborhood, Wilson had confessed to him that he stabbed her to death after she laughed at him for not being able to perform that night. Wilson came to his friend to beg for money for a plane ticket.

[00:17:36] Guest told police that he did not believe the story, but thought that his friend was just using this ruse to get a free plane ticket home to return to get this, his wife, Kathy. That's crazy. And I am going to interject and ask some questions because I was doing some like Googling and research on the story because I had never heard of it and I was fascinated. One story I read said that this John Wayne Wilson guy had gotten out of prison in Florida and sort of made his way up to New York.

[00:18:06] And then there was some discussion that like there was a gay partnership between Gary Guest and was it John Wayne Wilson or somebody else? No, it was those two that was referred to in an article. And I always try to like cite two or three sources before I actually put it in there. And I could only find that on one, maybe two. So I didn't add it in there. But there was some speculation that they were actually, you know, lovers and that and as

[00:18:33] we'll find out later with the reason that he does this is because he was not comfortable in his homosexuality. And so for whatever reason, whatever that means, that was what one of the articles said. Yeah. So I just think it adds a layer if we assume that's true. It may not be like you said. Thank you for being thoughtful about fact checking. So you've got Gary and John Wayne Wilson in this intimate relationship. They're at a bar. Like they probably just start talking to the girl next to him, right? Right. And then they're like, oh, let's go over here to this other bar. Gary's like, peace out, guys.

[00:19:03] I'm going home. I'm tired. John stays and they end up going back to her apartment. Right. But then he can't perform maybe for a lot of reasons. Right. Right. Given that background. I don't know. I just think it adds another level to the why he did it. Like what his frustration and motivation would have been. Because I had read some of the same articles probably, Heather, you had too.

[00:19:27] And I was confused that a couple of them did imply or strongly state that they were in a relationship, the two gentlemen. And then I could see, okay, you know, hey, you're having a good time. I'm going to go back to bed. Come home. You know, let yourself in. When you come back, maybe you met a friend. But then like then he like is trying to hook up with her. I was like, oh. But also the 1970s were like very fluid. Yeah.

[00:19:57] You know, people it was a sexual revolution. Yeah. No, it was just confusing. Yeah. It was confusing. Yeah. But as much as like at first I wanted to hear that, you know, he was the hero of the story coming in. The fact that he had been known for days that this guy had said he confessed. And I think it's kind of odd. Oh, it was just a ruse. He was just trying to get a plane ticket. Right. Right. Yeah. And then at least once it was in the newspaper, you know, he was telling the truth.

[00:20:28] If I was like if we were all hanging out like we do and I'm like, hey, guys, I got to tell you something. I killed somebody last week. No, don't tell me. Don't say it. Yeah. But I'm just saying like because he was like, I didn't really believe him. I thought he was trying to do this instead. I do think that would be really hard to believe. Yeah. But what kind of person would I joke about a lot? We all joke about a lot of stuff. But that's true. Yeah. No, you're right. Oh, that's weird. It's super weird. Yeah. Yeah. That's not a funny joke. No.

[00:20:56] So after telling the police everything he knew, he agreed to let them know if Wilson called. And sure enough, he did. Guest was able to tell police that Wilson was at his brother's home in Indiana. So they got a warrant and traveled there to arrest him for the murder of Roseanne Quinn. So Quinn is in custody. Excuse me. So John Wayne Wilson is in custody. And we get a more clear picture of what happened at 253 West 72nd. This is going to be difficult. Okay. Great. The pair arrived at the studio, drank some more and began to get intimate.

[00:21:25] And just like Gary Guest told police, Roseanne laughed at John Wayne Wilson when he couldn't perform. He became so enraged that he grabbed the pants she had been wearing and strangled her to unconsciousness. He went to the kitchen, found a paring knife, which is teeny tiny. Yeah. That's teeny tiny. And began stabbing her. In the process, he hit the jugular and blood went everywhere. He grabbed the metal bust, struck her face. And when he was certain she was dead, he took a red candlestick and reamed it into her so forcefully that it broke in half. That's the really hard part.

[00:21:54] All of it's hard. Right. But that's the... I mean, it shows you how angry he was. Yes. And he just met her. It wasn't like they had known each other years. So weird. It's... Yeah. But you said earlier that the coroner said she was not sexually assaulted. Right. And that's part of what I wanted to go back to. Apparently, the original autopsy reflected that she had been sexually assaulted. But when reports started to emerge that she regularly had men come to her apartment for

[00:22:22] one night stands, the report from the coroner was changed. It showed that they could not stay with certainty because there was no signs of, I don't know, a struggle or there was no signs that it was not forced. Okay. They could not determine if it was consensual. Right. Yeah. I mean... Yeah, I don't know. But yeah. But didn't they say they found something inside of her? Yeah. The candle.

[00:22:51] The candle was broken. I would... I'm going to go out and live and say that was sexual assault. Right. Yeah. Yeah. The whole thing's really yucky. And like I said earlier, it took me a while to write it because I kept getting mad, like just thinking about the inequity and the sexism of the 70s also today. But that's neither here nor there. I mean, I would definitely say of the 70s, but I would say up until recently. I mean, I still remember, you know, even in my time period in college, you know, girls would get a reputation now. And they were definitely much more sexually aware than...

[00:23:22] I mean, things that bother me today. I've been watching a TV show on HBO that was it? The Sex Lives of College Girls. And well, I'm sure it's very, you know, it's probably very dramatic or over the top, I guess is what I'm trying to say. But they are so sex positive. Like they are like totally have taken over their sexuality and have no issue. Sure, they could be in a relationship or they could have a one-night stand and they support each other.

[00:23:51] And I'm like, I don't remember that during my college years being that sex positive. Not to say good morning, I'm in sex, but it was a little bit more... Ooh. Hush, hush. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like we don't need to talk about it. Like definitely versus, hey guys, I had a great night last night. Right. And, you know, and being totally cool with it, not turning into a relationship. So I do think things have changed a lot that even in between our, you know, our, you know, early 20s and now, but gosh, I can only imagine how much different it was at that time

[00:24:21] period, especially from the police, the people that were doing the investigating of it were probably of an older generation. Oh, certainly. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I like that it's like that for women now. Like they can be more, I don't know, open with things like that and engage in that kind of behavior. They don't do anything wrong. No. It's not something that we necessarily would have done, but not, they're not doing anything wrong. I think that men haven't been doing for decades and decades.

[00:24:48] And I think we didn't do it because we knew we would be shamed. Yeah. You know, like, so. Right. But I do as, you know, want to remind us as moms and boys, you know, one thing that we always talk about is boundaries and consent. You know, my younger son likes to give me a hard time. Like if I'm a little too lovey-dovey on him and huggy kissing, he'd be like, mom, consent. Boundaries. I'm like, but you're so cute. I'm just trying to snuggle with you watching a movie.

[00:25:18] And, you know, he's 14. He's like, consent, mom. I chuckle a little. Not about the concept of consent because we wholeheartedly discussed that at our house. But I said something about like enthusiastic consent. My son said, he was like, mom, that might be asking too much. Like, I'm just going to be real happy if there's consent. Okay. That's funny. Okay. I love. It's like, let's not be crazy, mom. Right. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Sorry.

[00:25:47] I didn't mean that sexually. Sorry. Sure. Sure. Okay. Go on. In that same vein, I found this one fascinating article online that talked about this case and others in regards to how it was reported in the 70s. The headlines for the Roseanne Quinn murder were sensationalized and sexualized like teacher found nude. And it got me thinking of like when there's crimes like this against men, very rarely is the headline nude in there or naked. That's really, rarely used. Right. And certainly there's crimes involving homicides with men where they're found in that way, but that's never.

[00:26:17] Yeah. I think you're right. I can't think of, I mean, I'm not perusing articles looking for it, but I can't think of anything that comes to mind. Yeah. Well, it's probably goes back to, I mean, sex sells. Right. And that's a very salacious kind of thing. If you're talking about a woman, it's not as salacious if you're talking about a man. Right. Yeah. That's, you know. It's messed up. Yeah, I agree. So if you're hoping that John Wayne Wilson is in prison rotting somewhere, he's not. Oh, shoot. No.

[00:26:44] He hung himself with bed sheets in police custody three months after being arrested. Oh, okay. Yeah. Do you think his name was John Wayne Wilson before he committed this? I mean, obviously it was his name, but is that how he went? Or is he a three person, three name person because of the crime? I'm going to go with a three name person before the crime. What do you think? If he didn't, it wasn't beforehand. He got there pretty darn quickly. Because John Wilson is so generic. Yeah.

[00:27:11] For listeners who don't really know what we're talking about is, you know, we have the theory that all murderers basically have three names because it is just, I mean, otherwise it's shockingly coincidental. And maybe it's how the media promotes it or, you know, describes them. But over and over again, it's, you know, somebody with their middle name heavily. But didn't he also have a fake name that he gave? Charlie Smith. Charlie Smith. Yeah.

[00:27:39] That's who he gave the name he gave the bartender. It is odd that a guy would do that. Did y'all ever give fake names at bars? No. No. Oh, I had friends who absolutely would give fake names at bars. Like to guys if they bought them a drink? Oh, yeah. Like guys that were hitting them on them too much. Or I have one friend whose name is a little bit harder, like, you know, to say. So, I mean, they were never going to get it right. Like, you know, be confused. And so she'd just be like, Monica. Oh, that's smart.

[00:28:06] You know, just to, you don't really want to know my name. Like, you know, the backstory and the history. Just make it easy. So, yeah. Or I had friends who were just like, I've got a boyfriend and I'm going to be friendly and flirtatious because it's a group of guys coming to talk to a group of girls. And so I just need to be friendly. And I'm just going to give them a fake name. And we just would have to go with it. Remember it. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't have friends who did that. But I had a friend who, when she would meet a guy, she'd put the phone number under a girl's name.

[00:28:36] So that if she ever got a boyfriend, it wouldn't be like dozens of guys on her phone. Wow. That is a lot of forethought. That is a lot of forethought. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I just had to laugh that he gave a fake name to a male bartender. Yes. Yeah. So do you want to know what happened with the home? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it's still there. Okay. Yeah. It's still there. Yeah. It's in a building. It's in a building. So it's just about 100 years old.

[00:29:04] And Martha Hayden, not her real name, moved into the apartment unit unaware of what transpired within those walls. Like right after this happened? About two months after. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So probably the very first person. Right. Right. But when she learned of the events that happened after talking to neighbors, she quickly broke the lease and moved out. That is a woman after your own heart, Alana. I would definitely do that. Breaking that lease, I don't care how much it costs. Yeah. I'm out. But beyond that story, there's not a lot known about the actual unit.

[00:29:30] In fact, to even find her unit number, I had to cite an article from 1977. Wow. I did find a website that listed all of the occupied rental prices, but several units were withheld. So it'd be impossible to know which one was unit 714. The building has gone through a few renovations since Roseanne lived there, and it now boasts 259 units, a concierge, and a full-time doorman. Yeah. And Melanie, I don't remember if you were showing it right now, or we've got it on one of the pictures somewhere, but I pulled one of the pictures from Zillow.

[00:30:00] It is tiny. Like, you've got the bed next to, like, a little love seat and maybe a two-person dining table. I mean, you know, but this is really normal. Like, for that, you know, this might be a starter apartment for someone first moving to New York, or honestly, it might be all they can afford for somebody who is a teacher or is working in the arts industry trying to make a name for themselves.

[00:30:26] But they get real creative with, I mean, they have mastered the art of small, you know, small house living in, like, you know, where storage things, where you might have your clothing rack in your living room as, like, a divider. You know, you build lots of cabinets all the way up to the ceiling. You do what you got to do. Melanie was giving me grief earlier when y'all got here for having four boxes of Life cereal in my pantry. They don't do that.

[00:30:54] In addition to multiple other cereals, too. Yeah. There's no room for extra boxes of cereal. I joke that I can't go to Costco because I don't have enough, like, pantry space. They, I mean, they don't even have a kitchen. They have a kitchen net. They have these, like, little refrigerators. It's basically, like, a slightly larger college dorm fridge is what they can do. I mean, that's why a lot of them don't eat it. I mean, they, but you also have restaurants outdoors.

[00:31:22] In New York City, you can eat cheap and well. I mean, you can also eat real expensive, but there's a lot of options there. But yeah, you could see why you would spend some time outside via. Definitely. Perfect. So the building's currently renting units for 2,500 and above, and the murder of Roseanne Quinn is listed on multiple websites as the most notorious crime to happen at the building. I'm glad there was not something more notorious than that. Yeah.

[00:31:46] So I was Googling, trying to find some pictures for the YouTube channel, and I came across a photo of, was it WM Tweeds? I didn't realize that's also, like, a pretty famous piece of real estate, like, outside of this story, outside of how it pertains to the story. It's the same restaurant that Cheers was based off of. Yeah, and so they changed their name. And that's interesting because Cheers is in Boston. Yeah. Oh. Well, I don't know.

[00:32:16] It's why I'm, maybe my episode is, or my facts are wrong, but that's what one of the articles said. I don't doubt it because this bar only closed in 2007, and I think you're going to talk about how it kind of had some iterations. But the New York Times had a whole article in 2007 when it closed because, you know, they were talking about how its history was so important.

[00:32:43] One of the things that I read here was in 2007, so think about how much longer, you know, later this was and then the crime. On the night that they were closing, the author of the Times article goes, you know, meets with Glenn Johnson, a bar regular who was there that night. He goes, I actually knew the real Roseanne Quinn. It's a Mr. Johnson, a retired police detective who didn't work on the case, and she wasn't like how they made her out to be. She didn't pick up the guy here.

[00:33:13] You know, they went to a couple of places at night before going to her apartment. He decided he wanted her to be his girlfriend. She didn't want that. He went nuts, killed her. It had nothing to do with her picking up guys. I love that he went on record and said that. Like, I just kind of love that, like so many years later. But yeah, I just also think it's really neat that this, like, bar that definitely, the way they described it was, the bar was full of salt and pepper and riffraff, referring to the diverse customers.

[00:33:41] But he said the bartenders always looked out for the woman who came in alone. I love that. Yeah. I want to go. Oh, it's closed now. Well, I wouldn't. Yeah. I would have liked it. We need to find a favorite local bar to hang out in where people just know our name. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's do that. Can we do that? Yeah. I would love it. I do like that. And a funny thing is, apparently at the bar, it had a working pay phone many years later. And that was where Laura would have JFK Jr. and Daryl Hannah. Remember, they dated? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I remember that. Used to argue.

[00:34:11] Oh. Interesting. Just bringing in pop culture into our murders. All right. Well, I think I know the answer to this. But would you live there or would you list it? I wouldn't live in the actual unit, but I think I would live in the building. Yeah, I agree. The unit is too small for you not to feel like the murder happened everywhere you are. Yes. And think about the blood and stuff, too. Yeah. It's just. It's in there. Mm-hmm. Totally. And I would list it. Yeah, I'd list it. Yeah.

[00:34:41] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. And I'm guessing, you know, we've talked a lot on previous episodes about what do realtors have to disclose as it relates to murder or any type of violent kind of crime, burglary or something at home. And it depends upon state, but it's, you know, decently minimal. But in the court of public opinion, everyone sort of seems to know about it.

[00:35:09] This is harder when it was back in the 70s. But I suspect that since this was a rental, that you really did not need to state anything. No, you don't. Not in Texas. And then I saw in here, too. What in this, that Martha Hayden that moved in. Oh, yeah. She, they didn't disclose to her. She had no idea. So, yeah, they don't have to in New York either. But that reminds me, I wanted to talk about renters rights in Texas because I found it interesting that her colleague was able to go to the apartment and the superintendent just opened the door.

[00:35:39] That doesn't happen. Like in Texas, at least, you can put on the lease who you would want to access the home if, if maybe. Otherwise, they'd have to wait for a warrant to get into the apartment. That's how I understand it, Heather. Is that how you? Yeah, I think you're right. That being said, I don't know like if there's a superintendent in a building, if they have some level of like discretion. Right. Because I think you do hear about superintendents going in to places.

[00:36:07] But we don't lease a lot of condos. We lease more like single family houses where you're not really going to have somebody. With a property manager. Right. Yeah. I think I've told you before about my friend, Eve, who is kind of an Instagram, TikTok influencer in L.A. She is a lawyer and very smart about many, many things. But she also has a very popular TikTok account. And she had done something recently. She was so upset that she finally has a boyfriend. She seems very in love with.

[00:36:38] But she had talked to her superintendent about fixing something in the bathroom. And they had like a 9 a.m. appointment like on the next day. And 9 p.m. at night, she's getting friendly with her boyfriend. And all of a sudden, she hears a man inside her apartment. And, you know, her boyfriend runs out there and scares him off. And this was like 9 p.m. at night. And she finds out it was the superintendent.

[00:37:06] And he was like, oh, well, I just thought I'd get a head start. What? No. No. Exactly. No. No. No. Exactly. And brought her a bottle of wine to apologize. I'm like, no, no, no. There's nothing there that could at all give you any. Yeah. So. I think I would feel really weird if I was a single woman living alone knowing that some random man had access to my house anytime he wanted. Yeah. I agree.

[00:37:35] I mean, granted, I know he's employed to do that. But I don't like it. Yeah. I 100% agree. Sort of how I feel in hotel rooms. Like staff can come in all the time. It never occurred to me. Oh. No. Thanks. You're never going to travel again. New fear. Okay. Yes. But when you're in the room, you can't. Well, that's true. Yes. That's right. Well, Elena, this was fascinating. Oh, yeah. Thank you so much. I really like enjoy is not the right word. But I thought it was interesting to learn about her and her life and about the time period in which this occurred.

[00:38:05] I do sort of want to watch the movie now. Yeah. We'll have to link to that. Let's watch the movie and then have your son watch the movie. I want to know his take on it. Yeah. Absolutely. So if you guys enjoyed the show, we hope you will leave us some comments on our socials. We're on Facebook. We're on Instagram. Tell us what you liked, what you didn't like. We won't let Elena read the things you didn't like. We'll just read her the good comments. And of course, like, subscribe, share with your friends. And we'll see you next week. Thanks, ladies. Bye.

[00:38:35] Bye. Bye. Bye. Hey, y'all. Thanks for listening and being a part of our Crime Estate family. If you're curious about today's featured Crime Estate, you can find additional photos and details from today's episode online at CrimeEstate.com or on Facebook and Instagram by following at Crime Estate Podcast. Have a Crime Estate we should cover? Let us know. Shoot us an email at CrimeEstatePodcast at gmail.com. Until next week.

[00:39:06] Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.