Murdered and Missing in Oklahoma

[00:00:05] At the intersection of true crime and real estate, you'll find Crime Estate. I'm Heather. And my name is Elena. As real estate agents and true crime junkies, we view crimes through a different lens. So walk through the door of some of the most notorious true crimes with us and discover how sometimes the scene of the crime has its own story to tell. Hey, y'all. Well, thanks for joining us on another episode of Crime Estate. I'm Heather,

[00:00:33] joined by my real estate gal pal, Elena, and our friend, producer, and commentator, Melanie. Hey, ladies. Hey, y'all. I'm so glad to see y'all. It's only been a week, but I feel like it's been longer than that. I know. We've had a lot of... We had to chit-chat first. Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, all those memes go around about like you're just trying to survive January. We're recording this on the 31st, so we've almost made it. But it does feel like it's been a really long week. Yes. You know, everyone I've been interacting with were just saying, this has been the longest month ever. It really has.

[00:01:02] I mean, we always talk about like December being really long or May being really long, but I just feel like this one, I'm like, it's still January? Yeah, I just saw a meme. It said, January's been the longest year of 2025. Yes, that's right. That's exactly right. It can only get better. Well, if you guys are feeling like we are, you are in for a treat today because not only do we have a great story for you, but Elena's bringing it to us. Yeah, I'm excited about it. Yeah. I hope y'all like it. I think we're going... I mean, I've read it already. Okay. It's really good. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:01:31] I'm coming in cold. You know, usually I have been able to review it and get all my facts. So I don't know. If we pause it, I'll do a bunch of research. Well, I know that you usually do it on the fly too. Yeah. Research on the fly. Pretty quick. And I do think I somewhat know this story. Okay, cool. So our story starts on December 30th, 1999, when the Welch, Oklahoma Fire Department were

[00:01:57] alerted to a house fire at 7856 South 4390 Road. That's hard to say. I know. It's hard to say. When they arrived, they found the mobile home owned by Danny and Kathy Freeman fully engulfed by Flank. Sadly, within 24 hours, two bodies were recovered from the ashes and two young girls were missing. Okay. So there's no like prelude to today's story. You're just jumping right in. We're just doing it. Okay. We're just doing it. So Welch, Oklahoma is a town in Northern Oklahoma. Heather, are you familiar with Welch, Oklahoma? No, I'm not.

[00:02:26] And for those listeners that may not know, you know, I lived in Oklahoma City for about four years. I went to college there. I met my husband there. And we still go back and forth a lot because my parents and brother and them are there. But if you had asked me like before this episode, if Welch was a town in Oklahoma, I would have said no, absolutely not. So I'm assuming it's pretty small given that one, I've never heard of it. And two, their address is on a random numbered road. That's always a dead giveaway if it's rural. Right. Yeah. You're so right. And it's a pretty unassuming town.

[00:02:54] Nothing noteworthy is really written about it, except for this case that we're covering today. Welch is located about eight miles from the Oklahoma-Kansas border. And in 1999, when this crime occurred, it had a population of about 600, which is smaller than the size of a lot of high school graduating classes. So like you said, very small and very rural. Now, the owners of the property in Gulfton Flames that day are Danny and Kathy Freeman. The two met and wed early, even earlier than you, Heather. Oh, wow. I know. That's hard to do. Super early.

[00:03:22] By 1981, 22-year-old Danny and 19-year-old Kathy introduced baby boy Shane to the world. And just over two years later, in 1983, Shane was joined by baby sister Ashley. Those are good 1980s names. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Like Heather. Yeah. Oh! Well, it is true. There's a lot of Heathers. There's a lot of Heathers. Their Freeman family of four lived in a mobile home on a secluded road. They loved the rural life. They were advent hunters, and that was their paradise. Yes.

[00:03:51] The home, though, lacks some luxuries that let's just say the three of us would definitely miss. While it did have electricity and a telephone, it did not have running water or heat. Okay. That's crazy. Also, I don't know how you prioritize a telephone over water. Yeah. Well, I mean, this was, I mean, we're talking about the 90s, right? 80s. Okay. Okay. 80s. Wow. I mean, that's still pretty late to not have that. Okay.

[00:04:20] So, growing up in Kentucky in the 90s, I did know one family that did not have running water. And this would have been like, I graduated in 99, so 96, 97. Yikes. Yeah. I mean, but that's it. That's a thing. I mean, I think it's a very, a hardship. People are really struggling to make money, you know, because presumably they're either out on some land that somebody in the family owns.

[00:05:08] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And look, you know, you can make them look very permanent. For sure. I think a lot of times nowadays, you know, manufactured housing, I mean, that you see some, and I mean, I wouldn't necessarily know right away if it was a mobile home or not. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. And I do know there are some things, like, here in Texas, depending on, like, if you own the land, that's one thing.

[00:05:32] But if you're at a mobile home park, the leases can get really, financially, the leases can become difficult to maintain because I think they're looking to just turn over. Right. You know, you might have, like, a three-year lease, and then when it renews, it's exorbitant. Yeah, and I guess I just now realized that when you are in a mobile home park, you don't own the mobile home. You don't own anything, not even the mobile home? Well, it depends. It depends on the park.

[00:06:10] Yeah, on the park. Okay. Or you could not own either one and rent. Yeah. Okay. That was a nice little real estate. Yeah, yeah. Mobile home real estate stuff. My parents lived in a mobile home park, and they were the managers of it. Oh, neat. When my dad was in Gordon College, my dad had gone into the Air Force right out of high school and eventually met my mom out in California.

[00:06:37] And then after he got out of the military, he was using the GI Beldinger College in Southern Illinois. And my parents got married then, and so they managed the mobile home park, and they liked it because they were a young married couple to do that. And then that gave them, I think, either free or highly subsidized housing. So it was kind of a win for them. I didn't realize you had any connection to Southern Illinois off air. I want to talk to you about that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're right.

[00:07:07] Yeah, my dad's from Southern Illinois. Aw, neat. Now his dad has to write a book. I know. Seriously. He is like such a chameleon and has done so many things. He definitely has had a life. So, like you said, Heather, finances were pretty tight in the Freeman home. Danny did not have steady employment, and so the family relied on Kathy's job at Doctors Optical Supply to pay the bills. Presumably, in an effort to bring in more money for the family, Danny began growing and using marijuana. Several people in the community reportedly admitted to buying from him as well.

[00:07:37] Danny reportedly also had a temper. He was charged with assaulting his father-in-law in 1985, and though it was a rumor and not verified, it is said that he was also abusive to Shane and Ashley, and therefore the two tried to spend little time at their home. Regardless of whether the rumors of abuse towards the kids were true, what we know is that the family was having some major hardships.

[00:07:58] We fast-forwarded in our timeline to the late 1990s now, and Shane, who was at this time in high school, was having some behavioral issues, which resulted in him being first suspended and then later expelled. As a result of his issues, he was required to meet with a counselor weekly. And it's during one of these counseling sessions that Shane told his counselor about his father abusing him. Not long after, Shane, who is 16 at the time, showed up to school bruised and bleeding.

[00:08:26] He told authorities that his injuries were the result of his father abusing him. Authorities claimed that Danny used excessive force on Shane, but Danny maintained he was simply parenting his out-of-control son. That's awful. Yeah. I would say, if there's one thing us ladies know a lot about personally, it's parenting teenage boys. So good job bringing this all the way back home. I don't know a lot about it. I do it. But I don't know a lot about it. We're a really good mom. We're learning on the fly. Yeah.

[00:08:55] I have sort of a funny story for y'all, or at least one I think you'll appreciate. I don't know how funny it is. So I was in charge of sending dinner to school one night this week for after-school activities. And I'm used to ordering for teenage boys, and I did not realize my son was like the only boy of 12. And so I ordered so much food. One of the moms texted me. She's like, thank you for sending food. It was enough to feed an army, my daughter said. That's hilarious. Or enough to feed four boys after band practice. Right. Like either way.

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[00:09:53] the other kid's basketball practice. I've got like debate and model UN in my house, and you have a long list of to-dos you need to take care of. And it makes it almost impossible to have family dinner. Yeah. Much less make sure that everyone gets something healthy to eat each night. So Baller Mom Kitchens gets it and founded by a wonderful, hardworking mom of three boys, my former realtor.

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[00:11:34] But going back to Shane and Danny, um, and that abuse that was reported, I think it's important, like, if we're just going to discuss this, to frame this conversation both from, like, the time period in which it occurred and also our present day circumstances. Because it's totally different. And, like, I'm obviously not condoning any sort of abusive behavior, but I'm exactly the same age as Shane. We were both born in 81.

[00:12:02] I also grew up in a rural area, though we did have running water. Um, but my mother, who y'all have both met and is, like, the kindest, sweetest woman you will ever meet, she kept a switch on the top of the refrigerator. And if I got out of line, I got, like, a little tap on the bottom with it. And that was just customary for the time. Now, I never showed up, like, bloody and bruised. Um, but I'm pretty sure other kids were, like, regularly spanked and whipped.

[00:12:30] So it's hard to be like, oh, this is excessive abuse for the time period. Right. I agree that it is. But I don't know that the, I mean, apparently they thought it was, too, because they sent them to counseling. Right. But there is a, like, a scale there. Yeah. No, I totally agree. I also think it seems excessive if you were bruised and bleeding and the school community thought it was bad enough that they had to let the authorities.

[00:12:55] I feel like in small town Oklahoma, it had to be pretty bad to get the authorities involved, which we're very glad they did. I mean, that was the right thing to do. And we would hope that nowadays there would be a much lower threshold for everyone. But, I mean, you know, I had corporal punishment growing up. I think it was definitely of the time. Although my dad, to this day, like, he always says he regrets it so much. Well, I did a little research into corporal punishment, which is not in our show notes

[00:13:25] here. So sorry, I'm going to script. But apparently it's still legal in Oklahoma and in Texas and schools. It just depends on the school district board. Most states got rid of it in, like, the mid to late 90s. But a lot of southern states still have it as legal. Now, a couple years ago, Oklahoma outlawed it for certain types of students, in particular kids with disabilities, which, oh my gosh. Makes total sense. Yeah.

[00:13:54] But it's not, like, illegal in the state. It seems like it's up to the school board in the district that you're in. I remember kids getting spanked at the principal's office. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, I do too. That's sad. But your mom is the sweetest person ever. She is absolutely the sweetest. But also, let's be clear. Y'all have heard me talk about the number of exclamation points in paragraphs before. Yeah.

[00:14:22] I have toned down my sassiness to, like, the nth degree because I grew up being told not to be so bossy. Aw. But- Well, who does that sound like? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. We have one of those. I'm just saying, like, a lot of my issues were self-inflicted. Mm-hmm. I was maybe a sassy child. That sounds gaslighting, but we'll get into that later. No, no, I was definitely- Aw. No, I deserved it. My mom tells the story of when she was, like, eight months pregnant with my brother.

[00:14:53] I got on my big wheel. Oh, yeah. In the 1980s. 80s, girl. And I started riding it. And she was like, okay, it's time to go home. And I would wait for her to get right up to me. And then I'd pedal off again. Aw. She was like, I chased you around the whole neighborhood like that. Oh, well, you're a second born. I'm sort of an asshole. No, I'm the first born. No, you are. I was just a little bit of an asshole. Well, yeah. Okay, I try every day. I try to overcome the assholeness. I think you- And some days I do okay, and sometimes they don't.

[00:15:22] I mean, I didn't know you as a child, but I feel like you're great. You're not an asshole. You're a little judgy sometimes. A little judgy. I know. I know. I know. All right. But going back to the story, they were doing some corporal punishment. Yes. But sounds like they had some more progressive things coming. Absolutely. Couldn't have said it better myself. The family was required to go to counseling together after this incident.

[00:15:50] And once their mandated counseling sessions were through and they were relieved of that obligation, Shane would out of the family's mobile home and in with a friend. And from all accounts, it sounds like this move was good for the family and they seemed to be doing much better. It's a little foreboding. I can tell by the tone of your voice. Oh, yeah. Did it get like lower? Well, I mean a little bit. Or maybe it's the look on your face. Or you say it seems to be the way. Yes. Okay. Well, yeah, I guess it is because really things were just better for the rest of the Freeman family.

[00:16:18] Shane was still in a bad spot and he began breaking into people's homes where he would eat, shower, and steal. Okay, that's super creepy. But it also reminds me, do you remember that Frogger episode we did? Where the guy would like break in and live in people's houses? Mm-hmm. He was also a teenage boy. So maybe there's something to be said for that. You're right. Oh. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. We should do another Frogger episode. You were so creeped out by that Frogger episode. That was horrifying. I mean, okay. Okay.

[00:16:46] I forget about things that Elena is interested in. You like really creepy, gory ones. You like things with the – well, you hate the supernatural, but you're kind of – It's still kind of intrigued. You're intrigued by the supernatural. And you're also really intrigued slash freaked out by Frogger.

[00:17:08] For those like us beforehand who don't know what a Frogger is, someone who's like living in your house and kind of eavesdropping in the walls, I guess, or in the attic or in that situation, the crawl space. Yeah, living in there, not paying rent. Like the kids, living in there, not paying rent. Our children are Froggers. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Okay.

[00:17:31] So let's go to January of 1999 when a 17-year-old Shane was shot and killed by county deputy David Haynes. Oh, okay. Yeah. Did I skip anything? No. You just kind of jumped into it. Oh, I totally did. Did I skip? No, I didn't skip anything. Yeah, well, we're jumping into it. We're going. So deputy – Hayes. Deputy Hayes. What did I say? Haynes. Oh, my bad. Thank you. Hayes. I'm sorry. I'm just wanting to like process this. I'm feeling bad for the 16-year-old kid. And now you're like, eh, he was shot and killed.

[00:18:00] Well, but wait. Let her continue. Okay. So deputy Hayes says that he was out on patrol and came across Shane standing next to a broken down car on the side of the road, a car which was reportedly stolen. When deputy Hayes gets out of the vehicle and approaches the broke down car, he says that Shane reached from behind him and pulled a .22 caliber handgun out of the waistband of his pants. When ordering Shane to surrender his firearm, some sort of confrontation occurred and deputy

[00:18:29] Hayes shot and killed Shane. As usually is the case, the family disputes the story given by the deputy saying that wasn't like Shane to be confrontational. In a quote to a news outlet in 1999, Danny, Shane's father, said, quote, he did some stealing, but he wasn't violent. I'm really glad that you said that without an accent because it sounds like it should have a really good accent when you read it. Yeah. Okay. Look, here's what I'm going to say.

[00:18:58] Probably at 17 years old, he had done some stealing and hadn't been super violent. Although, obviously, if there's abuse in the home, there are some violent tendencies. But he probably hadn't been caught yet either. And so you don't ever really know what somebody is going to do when they're caught and confronted in a fight or flight situation, which is what this is. Yeah, for sure. But actually, some of Shane's friends contend that he was suicidal and even floated the idea of death by police. Oh, that's sad. So he was very troubled. Definitely.

[00:19:28] Definitely. And obviously, his death and the rumors and controversy surrounding how it happened added additional turmoil to the family. Danny reportedly asked around and found out where deputy Hayes lived. He would regularly drive by watching his family and at times even following them in the car. I mean, this is a small town. We already said there's 600 people. And I'm sure that, you know, the greater area was bigger, maybe, you know, outside of that town limits.

[00:19:54] But if in a scenario like that, everyone knows everybody or, you know, you're only one or two degrees of separation. Right. Definitely. So in response, the sheriff's office would make frequent visits to the Freeman neighborhood to keep an eye on the family trailer and keep tabs on their whereabouts. According to DeWayne, Danny's brother, Danny felt this was an attempt at intimidation by the department and told him that if anything ever happened to him, it would be because of the local law enforcement.

[00:20:23] Sorry, we're getting some like real house feedback here. I'm feeling dogs and doors. I'm sorry, guys. No, you're fine. Um, okay. Well, sure. But obviously he was trying to intimidate the deputy as well. Like you don't drive by somebody's house unless you're a teenage girl with a crush or you're trying to intimidate. Totally. I 100% agree. Yeah. Or you're like scoping it out for a robbery. Those are your three options.

[00:20:48] Or you're taking pictures of the house landscaping or the paint colors. Okay. I do sort of live in fear of like being on one of the neighborhood Facebook pages where they're like, so-and-so was seen in this car taking a picture of this house today when really I'm like standing outside taking a picture so I can tell my clients what they need to do from a landscaping. Oh, yeah. I'm like, one day I'm going to end up on a Facebook page. People are like, this creepy lady.

[00:21:15] You know, like I remember when we first bought our house and this was a while back, but even for a few years after that, you would see random people taking a picture of our house. And I'm like, I mean, it's a cute house, but why are you, you know, somebody taking a picture? And my theory always was that they were looking for comps and they, you know, like when you, I guess you guys would know this better than me. Like you would get like a list of all the current comps and there would be pictures and information about the houses that were comparable to yours. Yeah.

[00:21:45] Lenders will typically do that. They'll take pictures of the house or if you're refining too, they'll be out there and the neighbors don't necessarily know that their neighbor's refining. And so they could totally end up on the neighborhood page. Like there's this guy taking a picture of your house and totally innocent. Yeah. Or not. Or not. Yeah. So while all this is transpiring, Shane's little sister, Ashley, who remember is two years younger, is doing what kids do and living her life despite all the family drama and dynamics going on around her.

[00:22:14] Ashley's best friend is a girl by the name of Laura. No, Loria. Loria. Loria. Yeah. Loria Bible. Loria and Ashley met in kindergarten and were seldom apart. When there was strife in the Freeman household, Ashley would go to the Bible home for stability and solace. Ashley was the opposite of Shane. She never got into any trouble and was very well liked. Overall, it sounds like she was just a good kid. Though Loria and Ashley went to different schools and had differing passions, the pair were extraordinarily tight.

[00:22:43] Because of the known and speculated situation in the Freeman household, Loria was not allowed to spend time at their mobile home. But on the evening of December 29th, 1999, the Bible parents made an exception for Ashley's 16th birthday. So I'm not feeling good about this, the way you're setting it up. But I have a question. So when y'all were growing up, were you allowed to spend the night at people's houses? I was only allowed to spend the night at my best friend's house.

[00:23:11] But she was strongly encouraged to spend the night at my house instead. Or I was strongly encouraged to encourage her to spend the night at my house instead. Okay. So similar situation. Yes. I was. I mean, I definitely had about three girls that we would rotate and spend the night a lot at. But I know nowadays in a lot of families, that is very uncommon. A lot of families do not want people to be spending the night. I know that's kind of a trend right now.

[00:23:40] Well, and there's a trend for like the, I forget what they call it, but it's like, just call me at 2 a.m. and I'll come get you and you guys are ready to go to bed. Yeah. Yo, yeah, yeah. They thought there's a name for that. Yeah. I'm like, either you're at my house or you're sleeping over. I'm not coming to get anybody at 2 a.m. Oh, yeah. I don't disagree with the assessment. I'm just saying personally, that's not something I can do. Yeah. Well, we've dropped your son off at like 2 a.m. But we were still out. We were still out.

[00:24:06] That was the most random thing because I just like randomly got up in the middle of the night to go to the restroom because I'm an old lady. And you had texted and you're like, I think Leah wants to come home. This mother's intuition. I was like, okay. I mean, you're doing this. The door's unlocked. Oh, wait. I have to tell you all something. Okay. So three nights ago, our doorbell rang at 1.30 in the morning. And because you know my husband, we have cameras. So like from our bed, we pulled up the camera and there's a police officer standing there.

[00:24:36] And my kid was home, so my heart didn't like totally drop. But it was still, I was like, is this a real police officer? Yeah. Yes. That's what I would think. Is this a fake police officer? And so he rang the doorbell again. So I opened our door and I left the dogs out. Let's be clear. If this was a fake police officer, whoever was standing there was going to run away because my dogs are a lot. They're terrifying. I told them and I love them and they're terrifying. But they're a lot.

[00:25:01] So this sweet police officer, I like barely shimmy my way out the door so the dogs don't get out. Just pause. You did all this? Where was your husband in this? Okay. That's a great question. My mom asked me the same thing. I was the one that walked out there. I don't know if he wasn't quite awake yet or if I just took the initiative. I don't know. But I did go out there. Wow. I'm a strong girl. You are. I can handle a situation.

[00:25:27] And he was like, ma'am, I'm so sorry to wake you up, but your garage door is wide open. Oh. I was like, well, thank you for that. I'm sure our door to our house was open too. Like unlocked because anyway, it's a little scary to get that one o'clock. Yeah. That'd be terrifying. I'd be terrified. Yeah. I can't believe he didn't come down. John. Yeah. Well, God love him. He was probably really tired.

[00:25:56] You guys were sort of allowed to spend the night. It's not a thing people do now because sometimes police officers show up in the middle of the night. All the things. And then what happened? So like I mentioned at the start, the county fire department was alerted to a fire at the Freeman's Mobile Home around 530 a.m. And this is 530 a.m. on December 30th. 30th. 30th at this point. And let's just, we haven't, and I don't want to digress too much, but y'all, do you guys remember where you were on December?

[00:26:24] Like, well, I don't know, 30th, 31st, 1999. Y2K. Oh, that's right. I didn't know about that. I mean, this was like a big time period. I remember being in actual fear that something was y2k. I mean, I worked for Accenture. I was a consultant at that time. And we were making a boot cool amount of money as a, not me personally, but as a company dealing with the y2k issue.

[00:26:49] So even though I was, you know, an educated person, like my mom, like Jason and I went down to Austin that weekend. And we were staying like at a friend's apartment while the friends were out of town. My mom was like, I should go get some water and, you know, get some cases of food and stuff just in case. So I don't know. I just think this is odd that this was all right at y2k. Yeah. That was an exciting time. What was it you had to set your clocks back to like 1972 or your calendars back to 1972?

[00:27:20] The year might be wrong, but the thought process is the same. That if everything crashed, your calendar would still be right because of like the way that year lined up. Oh, like the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday? Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. But there. So you were about to. Oh, right. And so I interrupted you. No, no. So you were about to talk about the fire. Yeah. Yes. So the fire and police arrived with none other than Deputy Hayes being the first officer to arrive. Well, that makes sense because it's such a small town.

[00:27:48] Like there probably weren't that many officers. Like it's not like you have a zillion officers to choose from. Yeah, true. Probably Deputy Hayes is on call. Right. Right. 50% of the time. True, true. Okay. When the fire was extinguished, they began to search for bodies. Hours later, the charred remains of Kathy Freeman, Ashley, and Shane's mother were recovered. She was found face down in a bed. She had been shot execution style. And to the credit of the local law enforcement, they immediately alerted the OSBI or Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation to take over the case.

[00:28:18] They presumably did this because of the shared relationship between the department and the Freemans. Well, and I think that's really smart. Like both from an optics perspective, like there definitely could have been concern about the investigation not being handled properly, given the dynamics between the deputy and that family. But also like, let's remember, this is a 600 person town. Yeah. Like they probably didn't have the skills and resources to investigate. To deal with the murder? Yeah. I didn't think about that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:46] So just for a point of reference, because I know on the podcast, I've talked a lot about the small little town I grew up in. The one where my uncle was sheriff for a long time. My other uncle was the DA. Like right now, my cousin's the sheriff. Like we're talking small town. That population is 15,000. Wow. And I like in my head, it's teeny tiny. It's like I can't even imagine how small 600 is. Yeah, totally.

[00:29:11] I mean, my neighborhood, I mean, which isn't even that big of a neighborhood, you know, a subset of a subset of Dallas. It's I'm sure more than 600 people. Right. Well, I think you're right. And it's good that they call the OSBI because the case was confusing even to them. They were stumped when they did not locate other bodies. Parked in front of the home were several cars. And so they assumed several people were inside. But maybe most unusual, they found Lauria's car parked outside with the keys in the ignition.

[00:29:38] And I kind of feel like this is not quite unusual for rural living. I feel like I've heard of people doing this before. Is that in my head? 100%. No. Okay. It would be weird to not have keys in the ignition. It would be weird to have doors locked. That makes sense. So despite not finding anyone else inside, the OSBI released the crime scene about 12 hours after the initial fire call came in. Commentary, that sounds fast, but please continue. Yeah. Well, let's recap for a second. So Kathy, Shane's mom, is found dead.

[00:30:06] And police know for certain that Danny and the two girls should have been in the mobile home at the time of the fire as well. They immediately zeroed in on Danny, theorizing that Danny may have killed Kathy, set the home ablaze, and fled, taking Ashley and Lauria with him. Meanwhile, Lauria's parents, knowing of the strained relationship between the Freemans and local law enforcement, went to the crime scene themselves to search for clues as to the whereabouts of their daughter. So we're presumed that Lauria's parents maybe didn't trust the law enforcement either?

[00:30:36] Or was it just like the, like what was that? Right. So I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's the safest thing to say is that they were just desperate parents. They're trying to find answers any way they can. It's reported that they stood at the entrance to the property the entire day as investigators combed through their home's remains and were convinced that the department hadn't searched thoroughly enough. That's so heartbreaking. Oh my gosh. Can you imagine? I mean, I don't even want to imagine. Because these kids were our kids' age. Right.

[00:31:04] So the will to even just not enter and look for myself, I can't even imagine. Somebody would be holding you back. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So because they were on the scene, Lorraine and Jay Bible started to search the property and they found Danny Freeman's charred body on the same bed where investigators found Kathy less than 24 hours earlier. I'm sorry, what? Like the investigators didn't find this? But then the parents were like... They found one body but not a second body? Correct.

[00:31:33] That seems a pretty big thing to miss because then you would have medical examiners in, coroners. I mean, even in a small town, you would have thought many people were in that room. Right. And God bless their like parents' intuition that like something's not right here. Seriously. I mean, we've been talking to our kids about like sometimes you just have to take things on yourself and do what's right. Mm-hmm. And that's exactly what they just did. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:32:00] So just like Kathy, Danny was found with a shotgun blast to the face and his death was also deemed a murder. According to Lorraine Bible, when an investigator came to the scene to verify what Bible called in, he said in a telephone conversation with someone along the lines of, That thing I came to check on, the answer is yes. Lorraine thought the investigator did not want to openly express that they failed to discover a body at the scene. So they found the body. They call it in. So the police are already gone. Mm-hmm.

[00:32:29] Like they've left and they're searching the house by themselves. And they call and they're like, hey, we think we found another body. Mm-hmm. And then later in a phone call, which could be recorded, so he doesn't want to be like, yes, you're right. You found a body. He's like, that thing you called to check on. Yes. Right. That's awful. And this isn't the local law enforcement. This is like the big Oklahoma people. Yeah, that was what I was double thinking about was these are like, I mean, the big city people or, you know. Right. Right.

[00:32:57] So at this point, the OSBI wanted to reopen the crime scene and do another sweep of the property, but the Bibles were not about to let that happen. Now, my mama heart loves this so much for them, they refused to let the investigators back, stating that they had released the property already. Instead, they called in roughly 150 locals who searched the burnt remains of the home and the volunteers didn't come empty-handed.

[00:33:20] They reportedly brought their own chainsaws and other equipment so that they could cut the axles of the mobile home and haul away debris so that they could sift through the piles and piles of rubble. Okay. You got to love that country spirit. Like they come to get shit done. Totally. And I love the parents, too. Like that's amazing. They weren't looking for evidence to this point in time. They're looking for babies. Yes. Yes. Exactly. That's right. Unfortunately, though, the search did not locate the girls.

[00:33:48] They did, though, uncover Loria's purse with $200. The $200 survived the fire. That's impressive. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if the Bible parents, Lorraine and Jay, haven't seen badass enough as it is, listen to what they do next. On January 1st, 2000, they began a grid search of the property and surrounding areas. The Bibles and roughly 500 volunteers gathered on foot, horseback, and ATV, scouring a 10-mile radius, searching for any clues that could point them to the missing girls.

[00:34:17] They also printed thousands of missing person flyers and began to distribute. I hurt for them so much, but I'm also so proud of them. Like they are resilient spirits for sure. I love them. So they were even able, with the help of some of the Freeman family, to snag a segment on America's Most Wanted. The segment garnered a ton of attention and many leads, but unfortunately, nothing panned out.

[00:34:45] Meanwhile, the Bibles and members of the Freeman family still continued to meet with law enforcement. Though whether it's because of the initial errors in the investigation or something else, the relationship between law enforcement and the families was strained. For instance, the families were told that the girls would be placed in the National Crime Information Center database on January 6th, but by the 8th, they had still not been entered into the system.

[00:35:09] Adding to the distrust is the fact that it is known in the community that Daney was planning on filing a wrongful death suit against local law enforcement. And the rumor mill was spinning with theories that it was actually the local law enforcement who were responsible for the deaths and the missing girls. And local law enforcement initially attempted to cover up their crime by placing the blame on Daney. Okay. So I'm just thinking through this.

[00:35:33] So the theory is local law enforcement, in an effort to prevent this lawsuit from happening, killed Daney, perhaps. But then they couldn't find Daney's body. But then they also called in, like, their authorities or their higher-ups, essentially. So I think if you've actually done this, you don't call in somebody else to investigate. That's my theory. Unless they're—I don't know. I have no idea. Unless they're in on it. In on it.

[00:36:02] Okay, that's possible. There's like a brotherhood. I mean, I don't know. You're right. Yep. Okay. So I can definitely understand the rumors. But for what it's worth, Deputy Hayes voluntarily took and passed a polygraph test saying that he had nothing to do with the deaths nor the disappearances. It was briefly theorized that the girls killed Kathy and Daney and fled together. But it was quickly dismissed because the girls had no history of violence and because Loria's purse with money was left behind. Presumably, if they were running away, they would have needed all the money. Yeah. I mean, that's the most ridiculous theory.

[00:36:32] Yeah. Totally. What were they, like, 14? 16? Yes, 15, 16. Good girls had never been in trouble. Right. Like, they could have just gone to Loria's parents' house and, like, hung out there. Yeah. They probably would have taken Ashley in. No. Oh, totally. No. So over the years, investigators received several leads, but they all turned out to be dead ends. The most credible lead came from a serial killer named Jeremy Bryan Jones. Three names, of course. Three names, yeah.

[00:36:58] Six years after the fire and disappearances in 2005, he confessed to the crime after being questioned by police. He claimed that he shot Kathy and Danny as they slept and set fire to the home. He claimed that he was surprised to see Ashley and Loria run out of the burning home, and he convinced the girls that he was a good Samaritan passing by. He told them to climb into the car and that he would take them to get help. According to his story, he drove them into Kansas, where he sexually assaulted them, shot them, and dumped their bodies in a mine pit.

[00:37:26] And while this sounds really random, it may be worth noting that Danny and Jeremy Bryan Jones had a mutual acquaintance, a local drug dealer by the name of Charles Christian Kreider. Again, three names. Okay. Yeah. If they're going to be a bad guy, three names. Three names. I mean, my kids have three names, but they don't go by three names. Well, do they only start going by three names when they're bad guys? Yeah, see, I wonder. It's like, you know, how do you, like, from the press, is that how you distinguish them? Right.

[00:37:55] It's not John Smith. It's like John Jacob Smith, right? Like, you want to differentiate with the middle name so that people that hear it don't automatically associate. I want to research that because I think there might be something to it. Okay. That makes total sense. You do that. We'll follow up on another episode. Well, it sucks for me because my middle name is Marie. Like M-U-R-R-A-Y? No, Marie. Marie. You just said it with the... Marie. I have to agree with Heather. I was like, do you mean Marie or... That's what I said. Marie.

[00:38:25] That's what I said. Like, Marie. Atlanta, Marie. I love it. All right. Okay. So according to Sheila Johnson's book, Bloodlust, Jones went to the trailer that night high on meth because Danny owed one of his friends money and he was going to collect on that debt. Investigators took this confession very seriously and went to search the abandoned mines where he claimed to have left the girls' bodies.

[00:38:51] Unfortunately, this search found no evidence of Ashley and Luria and Jones later recanted his confession saying that he lied to authorities in order to get better food and extra phone privileges. However, Lorraine Bible believes that he recanted his confession to spare his ailing mother. Okay. So Lorraine thinks he did it and he just recanted in order to like make his mother die in peace. Well, there's more coming to the story, but at this time, that's what she thinks.

[00:39:20] Like right in the moment of that scenario. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I watch enough NCIS to know that people do like say they've done things in order to get better privileges. I guess it makes sense if you're already serving time for killing somebody and you could get something out of saying you killed somebody else. Yeah. I mean, kind of stir the pot. Maybe I, you know, get taken out, have to go meet with some lawyers, go walk, you know.

[00:39:45] I mean, it's got to be repetitive every day, be like, you know, the day before and day after. So maybe, I don't know, have some variety. Right. So many years passed, almost 13 to be exact. And in January of 2018, the Craig County Sheriff's Department, where Welch, Oklahoma is located, announced that they had new information in the case. Okay. That's exciting. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. No, no, you're good. That's exciting. Yeah. So detective notes and documents had been discovered in a police department closet. Okay. Yeah.

[00:40:14] This resulted in new leads for a new team to follow up on. In April of 2018, authorities arrested Ronnie Dean Busick. Okay. Another three names. So I think our hypothesis, Dan. I think you're right. He was charged with murder, abduction, and arson related to the Freeman's mobile home. Two other men, Warren Phillip Welch II and David A. Pennington, were also under investigation, but they died before they were able to be charged. Okay. Well, that came out of nowhere. We've heard nothing about these guys in the story.

[00:40:43] Because those notes were like in a closet for 13 years. Yeah. So do you think in 2018, they were like trying to figure out like how to digitize all of their evidence? Oh. And they like started pulling stuff out of closet? Could be. That's what I think. That's a good theory. That's smart. It also just cracks me up that one of the kids, men, his last name is Welch. And this is Welch, Oklahoma. Yes. I had to look at that twice. I'm like, am I getting this wrong? Yeah. Okay.

[00:41:12] But we haven't heard of these guys before right now. Right. But we did talk about Danny and his attempt to make money by selling drugs. Oh, yeah. You're right. Okay. So investigators believe that Busick, Welch, and Pennington entered the Freeman home to either sell drugs to Danny in order for him to sell and distribute them for a profit or to collect on a drug debt. They theorized that the girls walked in on Danny and the other guys at the wrong time. And as a result, they were taken in order to keep them quiet. Horrifically, investigators believe that the girls were kept alive for several days after

[00:41:39] the murders, with witnesses coming forward stating that they had seen Polaroids of them after they were abducted. These pictures show the girls lying on a bed with their hands tied. Where were these damn witnesses? Right. Sorry. Well, other photos showed them duct tape to chairs. These witnesses stated that the photos were kept, quote, like a trophy inside a leather briefcase, which was then passed around amongst the area drug dealers. Oh, my goodness. I know. In 2020, Busick pled guilty to involvement in the crime and was sentenced to 10 years in

[00:42:08] prison plus five years of probation. But in 2023, he was released early, having received credit for time served. He is believed to be residing in a nursing home in Tulsa. To this day, no trace of Gloria and Ashley have been recovered, and investigators think they may be in a pit or mineshaft near Pitcher, Oklahoma, in an area known as Tar Creek. Despite the fact that Busick went to prison for the crimes, investigators consider the case still open and continue to ask the public for tips.

[00:42:36] So, going back to the witnesses, they were intimidated. A lot of them were girlfriends of the three men, and they felt threatened and intimidated by them. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I feel like Mel has thoughts. Just, I mean, it makes me really, really sad about this. And, I mean, we were talking about the Tates and this being right before Y2K.

[00:43:00] And so, you guys realize that just what happened on December 30th was the 25th anniversary. Mm-hmm. So, this was the 25th anniversary. And they had this kind of an anniversary celebration, and they're still looking for these two young girls. And the dad, Gloria's dad, Stanley, who went by J Bible, he said there, well, it's just there for a short time in this life, you know. You only have them for a short time. They're like shooting stars.

[00:43:29] They burn real bright for just a short period of time. And I don't know. I mean, that's just devastating. These kids are our kids' ages. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. That's heartbreaking. Yeah. Doing something. They were not doing anything bad. They were just living in normal teenage life. Wrong place, wrong time. Yeah, exactly. But also, I have to go back to her parents' intuition of, like, they did not want her over there. Right. I mean, it... We all make that decision every day on, you know, are we going to allow this or not?

[00:43:58] And sometimes you do it, and sometimes you don't. And you never know if you're making the right choice. I mean, they obviously, we all do the best we can every day, and you never know. Oh, absolutely. It's just right. And, you know, some of the interviews with the parents over the years, they were like, I mean, yeah, I mean, hindsight's 20-20, but, you know, 16th birthday party. Yeah. I mean, it's not normal. I get it. I mean, we would have probably made the same decision, you know? Oh, yeah. That's hard. For sure.

[00:44:27] There's a silver lining somewhere, because this year, when the Oklahoma legislative session begins in early February, they will hear a bill being refiled by Steve Bashore that adds accessory to murder in the first or second degree to the list of crimes that would require an offender to serve 85% of their sentence before being eligible for parole consideration. This bill is in response to the release of Busick after serving less than three years.

[00:44:52] Yeah, because he, you know, said he was just the driver and that he didn't do anything. But I'm sorry. He was in the car when all this occurred, you know. And he held on to it for decades. Yeah. Do y'all know that one of my sorority sisters from college is in the Oklahoma legislature? Oh. I literally talked to her yesterday. Get a call. Because, like, session's about to start. Oh, yeah. Wow. So, hey, I had no idea. I will call her and ask her about this. Yes. I love it. That's so exciting. Oh, I don't love it, but, you know. Yeah. Full circle. Okay, yeah. You love the full circle moment.

[00:45:21] Yes, yes. So, obviously, the mobile home was destroyed in the fire, but the lane was owned by the Freeman family and Glenn Freeman, the father of Danny, moved into the mobile home. Into a, like, probably a thing. Into a mobile home. Thank you. Into a mobile home. A new one. Yeah. A new one. Not the charred one. Yeah. On the land shortly after the tragedy. Glenn lived there until his death in December of 2024. Oh, very recent. Very recent. Okay. And it appears that Lonnie Freeman, Danny's brother, is now the owner of the land. And Glenn seemed lovely.

[00:45:50] He's got some articles online, and he lived there and was mournful, seemed like, to the day he died. So, the question that we ask on every episode, would you live there? On the land, of course, since the mobile home is gone, and would you list the land? I mean, I don't have any desire to live in rural Oklahoma. Would I live there as a part of the crime? Because of the crime? Yeah. I think so. Because I think it's dispersed enough that you can convince yourself like you're not in the space where it actually happened.

[00:46:21] And yeah, I'd list it. What about you? Agree. Both. Oh, on both? Yeah. Okay. Woo! Yeah, I know. I don't know. I feel like something, like, I don't know why with this one, but something with the fire kind of makes it feel like, I don't know, less... Risen from the ashes? Maybe. Maybe. Some sort of symbolic thing. Like, it doesn't seem as scary to me for some reason. Okay. What about you, Mel? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. I think I would be able to rationalize it in my head that this was...

[00:46:50] We don't know for a fact, but I'm imagining it was a decent amount of land that my house, that if I was going to build something or put something there, would not be right on the exact scene. Yeah. So we hope you found this episode today interesting. We know we have a lot of listeners in the Texas, Oklahoma area. So if you remember anything about this crime after listening to today's episode, you can call in a tip to the Craig County Sheriff's Office at 1-800-522-8017.

[00:47:20] Elena, thank you so much for this story. I mean, I think it was different than a lot of the other ones we've covered recently. And we've all talked amongst ourselves, like, it's really important to us on the show to cover a wide range of crimes and a wide range of properties. So thanks for sharing this one with us. Yeah, that's right. And if you have an episode idea for the podcast, you can email us at crimestatepodcast at gmail.com. I personally checked that email. So send us a note there with your ideas. She's laughing because she only checks it like once a month.

[00:47:50] But she totally called you out. You're right. But I am going to be checking it more because we had a really cool email this week that we're going to be responding to. And last but not least, if you want to support the show, please subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a five-star review. We love that. Tell your friends about the show. Give today's show sponsor, Baller Mom Kitchens, a try. Remember, when you enter the code CRIMEESTATE, two words at checkout, CRIME space estate, you'll receive 10% off your first order.

[00:48:19] And before we say goodbye for this week, one more quick plug. The episode will be dropping right around Valentine's Day. And you can also support the show by shopping some of our favorite gifts from your gal pals at CrimeEstate.com forward slash shop. Go check it out. And we'll see you all next week. Bye, guys. Bye. Hey, y'all. Thanks for listening and being a part of our Crime Estate family.

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