The Menendez Murders -UPDATE

[00:00:05] At the intersection of true crime and real estate, you'll find Crime Estate. I'm Heather.

[00:00:09] And my name is Elena. As real estate agents and true crime junkies, we view crimes through

[00:00:14] a different lens. So walk through the door of some of the most notorious true crimes with

[00:00:18] us and discover how sometimes the scene of the crime has its own story to tell.

[00:00:25] Hey y'all, we are back with another Crime Estate Podcast and we have something a little bit

[00:00:30] different for you guys this week. I'm Heather. Of course, I'm here joined with Elena and Melanie.

[00:00:36] Hey ladies.

[00:00:37] Hey.

[00:00:38] And we were talking, so unless your head has been in the sand this week, and this is like

[00:00:44] in real time, so I know usually we're a couple of weeks behind, but this week we're in real

[00:00:48] time. The Menendez brothers have been in the news pretty much constantly. First, there was

[00:00:55] that Netflix series that came out what, maybe two weeks ago? Does that sound right?

[00:00:58] Yeah.

[00:00:59] It was the Ryan Murphy Monsters. It's sort of like a scripted series about the Menendez brothers.

[00:01:06] Yeah. And I think that was pretty controversial and got a lot of news in its own right. But

[00:01:11] we covered the Menendez story, the brothers and the crime and the house, of course, back in.

[00:01:18] And what did you say?

[00:01:19] Episode 27.

[00:01:20] Episode number 27. So one of our first episodes, and at the time we talked about how there was

[00:01:26] a huge movement to free the Menendez brothers. And that is what has really gotten attention

[00:01:32] this week is the judge is now reviewing that new evidence that we discussed in that episode

[00:01:38] where they have found a letter that one of the brothers wrote to a cousin describing the

[00:01:45] sexual abuse that was going on in his house at the time, not a new letter, but a time,

[00:01:49] a letter that took place, you know, prior to the crimes occurring. And one of the big controversies,

[00:01:57] if you'll remember the trial, actually the case went to trial twice. And in the second trial,

[00:02:03] they did not allow evidence of, you know, sexual abuse into the trial. And so not to put on my

[00:02:10] lawyer hat because I'm not a lawyer, but my layman's understanding of what's going on right now

[00:02:15] is they are asking a judge to decide if this evidence should have been allowed into the trial.

[00:02:23] And if it would have been allowed into the trial, would that have, you know, brought a different

[00:02:28] outcome? And as a result, should that conviction be overturned and should the brothers be released?

[00:02:35] So, and I think that decision is imminent. I mean, we are recording this on Friday at 540,

[00:02:40] and this will go out Monday morning. So unless it occurs over the weekend, we're still on pins and

[00:02:46] needles. But I mean, I think that the judge is going to be at least looking at this because the idea

[00:02:52] was that back when the initial case, you know, it was not included. But nowadays,

[00:02:57] sort of extraneous evidence that while the brothers never said that they did not murder their

[00:03:05] parents, that this was sort of their rationale. And so maybe it would mitigate how long their

[00:03:12] sentences were. It's very interesting. The timing is weird too. Like the series came out and then

[00:03:19] this happens. And well, and there was another series that came out a couple of years ago.

[00:03:24] I don't want to quote the date on it, but that sort of started this whole like pre the Menendez

[00:03:29] brothers. And there's a huge movement on TikTok. So I think that led to another series because people

[00:03:37] were interested in it. And I think this legal thing has been going on behind the scenes for quite

[00:03:42] a while. So it wasn't us.

[00:03:44] It wasn't us. I mean, thank you all for listening.

[00:03:47] I love that. That's where your mind went. I think that there is also maybe Netflix is going to also do

[00:03:53] a documentary. So this one was like a scripted series, but then they're going to do a documentary

[00:03:58] using the actual recordings and 911 videos, etc, things like that. And we were kind of joking

[00:04:05] about how Kim Kardashian is very involved. She's met with the Menendez brothers in prison. She's done a

[00:04:12] viral op-ed. So there's a lot of publicity spun up about this right now.

[00:04:17] Yeah. So if you're also intrigued by the story of the Menendez brothers, we are going to replay

[00:04:22] our Menendez brothers episode for you. So we hope you enjoy.

[00:04:27] Thanks.

[00:04:27] Thanks.

[00:04:31] And you know, this story is one I've actually wanted to cover for a while now. I began researching it back

[00:04:37] in February of this year, but because the story while old has also recently been in the news,

[00:04:44] you know, it took a little bit more time to research than some of the other crimes and

[00:04:48] properties that we've covered.

[00:04:49] Well, now I'm intrigued.

[00:04:50] Okay. Well, good. And you know, I think I've mentioned on previous podcasts, you know,

[00:04:56] Alana and I, as well as our producer, Melanie are all boy moms. We do not have a girl between

[00:05:01] the three of us.

[00:05:01] We don't even have girl pets.

[00:05:03] I mean, not at my house.

[00:05:04] But we're the Queens. So I like it.

[00:05:07] I like it that way.

[00:05:07] Yep.

[00:05:08] All boys all the time.

[00:05:09] Okay. So with that in mind, fair warning to our listeners that it's going to be hard for us not

[00:05:14] to bring our boy mom perspective to this story. And on a more serious note, I also want to warn

[00:05:20] our listeners that this episode contains discussions of sexual assault in addition to murder.

[00:05:24] Thank you for that warning.

[00:05:27] So our episode today takes place in Beverly Hills, California, but the backstory to the story actually

[00:05:33] begins in a neighboring town about 30 minutes away from Beverly Hills in Calabasas.

[00:05:38] And really everything you need to know about Calabasas can be summed up by knowing that it's

[00:05:43] where the Kardashians live, a neighborhood of wealth, privilege, and expensive real estate

[00:05:48] that is popular among celebrities and LA media execs.

[00:05:53] And that is exactly how the minute paper.

[00:05:56] Princeton gave him the choice of accepting a suspension or being expelled.

[00:06:01] Jose flew from California to New Jersey to meet with the university president in person,

[00:06:05] but he was unable to prevent the suspension and Lyle ended up coming back home with him to California.

[00:06:11] So at least good for Princeton there.

[00:06:13] Right.

[00:06:14] Now fast forward a few months to the summer of 1988 and Eric, the younger of the two sons,

[00:06:20] was implicated in a number of burglaries in the area.

[00:06:23] Eric and his friends claimed that they were bored and would go on quote,

[00:06:27] hot prowls, burglarizing homes just for the thrill of it.

[00:06:31] All in all, they stole over $100,000 worth of jewelry, cash, and other items from the homes of their friends' parents.

[00:06:40] Did you ever see?

[00:06:41] Oh, sorry.

[00:06:42] No, go ahead.

[00:06:42] Yeah.

[00:06:42] Did you ever see it was like a, I don't know, movie of the week?

[00:06:45] Because this happened in, I think, the early aughts.

[00:06:48] There was this bling.

[00:06:51] The bling ring or something.

[00:06:53] Yeah, that's what it was.

[00:06:54] And it was, you know, privileged Southern California, might have been Calabasas area,

[00:07:00] teenagers who were stealing.

[00:07:02] And then they ended up getting arrested and making, you know, a movie about it.

[00:07:06] Seems like the pre-bling ring group in the 80s.

[00:07:10] Yeah, that's exactly what this was.

[00:07:12] Not surprisingly, Jose was furious because his sons had embarrassed him in their new town.

[00:07:17] Yeah, you'd think he'd be embarrassed by being kicked out of Princeton and doing the robberies,

[00:07:23] but he's embarrassed because of how it looks on him.

[00:07:25] Yeah.

[00:07:25] And also interesting that they're both different parts of the country,

[00:07:28] and they're both going through something at the same time.

[00:07:31] Yeah, that is interesting.

[00:07:32] I hadn't thought about that before, but they're both sort of really struggling with this new,

[00:07:37] you know, life that they're living for sure.

[00:07:40] So Eric ended up returning most of the merchandise,

[00:07:45] and Jose wrote a check for $11,000 to cover the items that couldn't be returned.

[00:07:51] Luckily for Eric, as a juvenile with no prior arrest,

[00:07:54] he was put on probation and ordered to do community service.

[00:07:58] Additionally, the judge required that both boys undergo psychological counseling.

[00:08:03] Now, many friends of the family believe that Eric was convinced to take the fall for the robberies,

[00:08:09] speculating that Lyle was also involved,

[00:08:12] but his age would have made it so that he was prosecuted as an adult,

[00:08:15] and this kind of conviction would prevent him from returning to Princeton at the end of the summer.

[00:08:19] Okay.

[00:08:20] So it's unclear to me whether or not this is true,

[00:08:23] but one thing is for certain.

[00:08:25] Jose was so embarrassed by the robberies

[00:08:28] that he moved the family to Beverly Hills

[00:08:30] and away from anyone who knew what his sons had done.

[00:08:33] Wow.

[00:08:34] So the Menendez family purchased the home at 722 North Elm Drive

[00:08:38] in the renowned 90210 zip code of Beverly Hills in 1988.

[00:08:44] And while most reports say that the house cost the family $5 million,

[00:08:48] property tax records show that it was purchased for $4 million.

[00:08:53] 722 North Elm is in the flat section of Beverly Hills,

[00:08:56] a neighborhood of large, single-family homes only about a half block from Sunset Boulevard.

[00:09:02] This luxurious property, originally built in 1927,

[00:09:05] came with a swimming pool, guest house,

[00:09:08] and maybe most impressive of all, especially for this family, a tennis court.

[00:09:12] The two-story Mediterranean-style property featured a stucco exterior

[00:09:16] with red tile roofs and boasted over 9,000 square feet of living space.

[00:09:21] It had recently been extensively remodeled by the previous owner

[00:09:25] who leased it for a few years to celebrities like Prince and Elton John.

[00:09:29] Okay, so if you're keeping track,

[00:09:31] this is the third property the family has purchased or lived in

[00:09:34] since their move to California two years prior.

[00:09:37] First, the home they're remodeling on Mulholland Drive in Calabasas,

[00:09:41] the home they rented while doing the renovations on Mulholland Drive,

[00:09:44] and now this property at 722 North Elm in Beverly Hills,

[00:09:48] a move which required Eric to transfer to Beverly Hills High School.

[00:09:53] So we recently talked on a different episode about purchasing fully furnished homes.

[00:09:57] Was that Grizzo Mansion last week?

[00:09:59] Yeah.

[00:10:00] Okay, yeah, very recently.

[00:10:01] But I thought it was interesting that when the Menendez family purchased this home,

[00:10:05] the sellers offered to sell it furnished for an additional $350,000,

[00:10:11] but the Menendez family declined that offer.

[00:10:14] I mean, maybe since it was a rental property,

[00:10:16] you know, they weren't very wedded to the furniture.

[00:10:19] I think you're exactly right.

[00:10:20] It's almost like those vacation properties we were talking about.

[00:10:23] You don't need that furniture in your regular house.

[00:10:25] I kind of am actually surprised they didn't take them up on it

[00:10:28] just because they still were renovating that other house.

[00:10:31] I mean, like, what kind of money did these people have

[00:10:34] to be having all these high-value homes?

[00:10:38] Yeah, lots of irons in the fire at one time for sure.

[00:10:41] So not quite a year later, on the evening of August 20th, 1989,

[00:10:46] a horrible crime occurred at the Menendez home.

[00:10:50] Kitty and Jose were in the living room when they were both shot multiple times

[00:10:54] by a 12-gauge shotgun.

[00:10:56] According to investigators, Kitty was shot 10 times and Jose was shot 6 times.

[00:11:01] The crime was so brutal that investigators initially suspected

[00:11:05] that it could have been a mob hit.

[00:11:08] Jose was shot first in the back of the head,

[00:11:10] and it appears that Kitty ran down the hall but was shot in the leg,

[00:11:14] causing her to fall before she was shot several times again.

[00:11:19] Their sons, Lyle and Eric, found their bodies upon returning home from seeing a movie

[00:11:23] and called 911 at 1147 p.m.

[00:11:27] In the call, Lyle tells the dispatcher that someone killed his parents

[00:11:30] and can be heard telling his brother to stay away from the bodies.

[00:11:35] And in a pattern that we see over and over again,

[00:11:37] police broke protocol for the wealthy Menendez family

[00:11:40] by allowing the brothers to grieve together

[00:11:42] and not testing their hands or clothes for gunshot residue.

[00:11:46] In fact, while the police talked to the brothers the night of the crime,

[00:11:50] they didn't formally interview them until two months later.

[00:11:53] That's infuriating.

[00:11:55] It is.

[00:11:55] That's terrible.

[00:11:56] But you're right.

[00:11:57] We keep hearing about this kind of stuff.

[00:11:58] I mean, even if they didn't have anything to do with the crime,

[00:12:02] this is bad policing.

[00:12:04] Like, I mean, it just seems to be standard operating procedures

[00:12:09] that you want to be able to interview them.

[00:12:11] You want to establish the timeline.

[00:12:12] You want to do as much crime scene investigation as possible.

[00:12:17] Yeah, I think you're both exactly right.

[00:12:19] And, you know, friends and colleagues said

[00:12:21] that they were actually not surprised that Jose was murdered.

[00:12:23] One colleague went on record saying that if he had to list

[00:12:26] the top five people he knew who might be murdered,

[00:12:29] Jose was at the top of the list.

[00:12:31] So he was like a jerk or something?

[00:12:33] I guess.

[00:12:34] Dang.

[00:12:35] Vanity Fair reporter Dominic Dunn wrote,

[00:12:37] I visited the house on Elm Drive.

[00:12:39] It is deceptive in size,

[00:12:41] far larger than one would imagine from the outside.

[00:12:44] You enter a spacious hallway with a white marble floor

[00:12:47] and a skylight above.

[00:12:49] Ahead to the right is a stairway carpeted in pale green.

[00:12:53] Off the hallway on one side is an immense drawing room

[00:12:56] 40 feet in length.

[00:12:57] The lone piece of music on the grand piano

[00:12:59] was American Pie by Don McLean.

[00:13:02] And on the other side are a small paneled sitting room

[00:13:05] and a large dining room.

[00:13:07] At the far end of the hallway

[00:13:08] and full view of the front door

[00:13:10] is the television room

[00:13:11] where Kitty and Jose spent their last evening together.

[00:13:14] On the back wall is a floor-to-ceiling bookcase

[00:13:16] filled with books,

[00:13:17] many of them paperbacks,

[00:13:18] including all the American history novels

[00:13:21] of Gore Vidal, Jose's favorite author.

[00:13:23] On the top shelf of the bookcase

[00:13:25] were 60 tennis trophies,

[00:13:27] all first place,

[00:13:28] that had been won over the years by Lyle and Eric.

[00:13:31] What's a drawing room?

[00:13:34] Oh.

[00:13:36] I'm trying to think how I would describe that today.

[00:13:38] I mean, I think initially

[00:13:40] it was where the ladies of the day

[00:13:42] would play their music or draw and do art.

[00:13:47] Literally like an art room.

[00:13:48] Yeah, like probably lots of natural sunlight

[00:13:51] with some settees and some, you know,

[00:13:55] for people of leisure that don't have to work all day

[00:13:57] and need a place.

[00:13:59] I think it's an entertaining room

[00:14:00] that isn't a TV room kind of situation.

[00:14:06] I've been watching The Gilded Age on HBO

[00:14:09] and, you know, they always retire to the drawing room,

[00:14:13] which just seems like a place to play cards

[00:14:16] or gossip or have drinks.

[00:14:17] I don't know.

[00:14:18] That's like your office here.

[00:14:20] Oh, yeah.

[00:14:21] Not a lot of work, a lot of drawing.

[00:14:23] Sure.

[00:14:23] A lot of drawing.

[00:14:25] Drinks.

[00:14:27] Okay, so leads in the case were slim,

[00:14:29] but investigators began to suspect

[00:14:31] that Lyle and Eric were involved

[00:14:33] in their parents' death

[00:14:34] after they both went on incredibly lavish spending sprees.

[00:14:38] Upon inheriting their family's $14 million estate,

[00:14:42] they spent almost $700,000

[00:14:44] in the course of a few months

[00:14:46] on things like a Rolex,

[00:14:48] a Porsche,

[00:14:49] adjoining Marina Del Rey penthouses,

[00:14:51] a Jeep,

[00:14:52] and get this,

[00:14:53] they even purchased

[00:14:54] a Buffalo Wing-style restaurant.

[00:14:56] What?

[00:14:57] It's kind of crazy

[00:14:58] that they had access

[00:14:59] to all that money

[00:15:00] so quickly after their parents passed.

[00:15:01] Yeah, and I don't know.

[00:15:02] I mean, obviously,

[00:15:03] the estate wasn't settled at the time,

[00:15:05] right?

[00:15:05] But they probably had access

[00:15:06] to whatever was in the bank account.

[00:15:08] Oh, well.

[00:15:09] At least, you know?

[00:15:10] Yeah.

[00:15:10] I mean, I get, you know,

[00:15:11] on one hand, I'm very judgy.

[00:15:14] But on the other hand...

[00:15:16] I'm not joking.

[00:15:17] You're not.

[00:15:17] No, judgy about this.

[00:15:19] But, you know,

[00:15:20] they were, what,

[00:15:21] 19, 21, 22-year-olds.

[00:15:23] I mean, you know,

[00:15:25] you have to give them

[00:15:26] a little bit of grace

[00:15:27] about being able to have access

[00:15:29] to all that money

[00:15:30] when they are at that age.

[00:15:33] Yeah, and I could see

[00:15:34] the adjoining condos.

[00:15:37] You know, I wouldn't live

[00:15:38] in that house again.

[00:15:39] Yeah.

[00:15:40] Yeah, so, yeah,

[00:15:41] they vacated it pretty quickly.

[00:15:42] Didn't sell it right away,

[00:15:43] but vacated.

[00:15:44] Yeah.

[00:15:45] So it's around the same time

[00:15:47] when this spinning spree

[00:15:48] is going on

[00:15:49] that Eric's friend,

[00:15:50] Craig Signorelli

[00:15:51] from Calabasas High School,

[00:15:53] reached out to police

[00:15:54] to tell them about a screenplay

[00:15:56] that he and Eric wrote together.

[00:15:59] Entitled Friends,

[00:16:00] the 60-plus page screenplay

[00:16:02] tells the story

[00:16:02] of a young man

[00:16:03] named Hamilton Cromwell

[00:16:05] who kills his parents

[00:16:07] in order to get his inheritance.

[00:16:09] The main scene

[00:16:10] shares eerie similarities

[00:16:12] to how Kitty and Jose were killed.

[00:16:14] One of the most quoted passages

[00:16:16] from the screenplay

[00:16:16] comes from the mouth

[00:16:17] of Hamilton Cromwell.

[00:16:19] Speaking about his father,

[00:16:20] he says,

[00:16:29] Sad.

[00:16:33] It is sad.

[00:16:35] But none of this

[00:16:36] is enough to charge Eric or Lyle

[00:16:38] with their parents' murder.

[00:16:40] However,

[00:16:41] as the saying goes,

[00:16:42] loose lips sink ships,

[00:16:44] and that is exactly

[00:16:45] how police were able

[00:16:46] to move forward

[00:16:46] with this investigation.

[00:16:48] In October,

[00:16:50] approximately two months

[00:16:51] after the murders,

[00:16:52] Eric goes in

[00:16:53] to see his psychologist.

[00:16:54] Now remember,

[00:16:55] seeing a psychologist

[00:16:56] was one of the requirements

[00:16:57] that the judge

[00:16:58] placed on Eric

[00:16:59] a year prior

[00:17:00] when not charging him

[00:17:01] for those robberies.

[00:17:03] And it's in this session

[00:17:04] with the therapist

[00:17:05] that Eric confesses

[00:17:06] to killing his parents.

[00:17:09] Claiming not to be bound

[00:17:10] by client-patient confidentiality

[00:17:12] because he feared

[00:17:12] for his life

[00:17:13] and also just generally

[00:17:15] being unethical

[00:17:16] in the way he practiced,

[00:17:18] the therapist,

[00:17:19] Jerome Ozeal,

[00:17:20] allowed his mistress,

[00:17:21] a woman by the name

[00:17:22] of Judalon Smythe,

[00:17:24] to listen through the door

[00:17:25] to his sessions.

[00:17:26] Oh, dang.

[00:17:26] It's horrible, right?

[00:17:27] Yes.

[00:17:29] And upon hearing

[00:17:30] Eric's confession

[00:17:31] to his therapist,

[00:17:32] Judalon Smythe

[00:17:32] reached out

[00:17:33] to the Beverly Hills

[00:17:34] Police Department

[00:17:35] who then seized

[00:17:36] the therapist's recordings

[00:17:37] and arrested Lyle

[00:17:38] on May 8, 1990.

[00:17:41] Do you think

[00:17:41] maybe he was suspicious

[00:17:42] and that was like his way

[00:17:43] to be able

[00:17:45] to go to the authorities?

[00:17:48] It's like,

[00:17:49] hey, listen at the door

[00:17:50] just in case.

[00:17:52] I don't know.

[00:17:52] I did a little bit

[00:17:53] more research on this guy

[00:17:54] that doesn't really come up

[00:17:55] in the rest of the podcast,

[00:17:58] but he seems a little smarmy.

[00:18:00] Gotcha.

[00:18:01] Okay.

[00:18:01] I think he maybe

[00:18:02] just didn't care

[00:18:02] about client-patient confidentiality.

[00:18:06] So Eric,

[00:18:07] but then,

[00:18:08] okay,

[00:18:08] so then Lyle

[00:18:10] was arrested on May 8,

[00:18:11] and Eric turns himself

[00:18:12] into police

[00:18:13] three days later

[00:18:14] after returning

[00:18:15] from a trip to Israel.

[00:18:16] He had been over there

[00:18:17] playing tennis.

[00:18:18] So not surprisingly,

[00:18:19] there was a lot

[00:18:20] of controversy

[00:18:21] about whether or not

[00:18:22] the tape

[00:18:22] from Dr. Ozil's office

[00:18:24] should be allowed

[00:18:25] into the trial.

[00:18:26] It took almost

[00:18:27] two years

[00:18:28] for the Supreme Court

[00:18:29] of California

[00:18:30] to ultimately decide

[00:18:31] that the tapes

[00:18:32] would be allowed

[00:18:32] into evidence.

[00:18:34] And with that,

[00:18:35] the court TV trial

[00:18:36] of the early 90s

[00:18:37] got underway.

[00:18:40] Eric,

[00:18:42] quick question.

[00:18:43] Eric was the one

[00:18:44] who was with the therapist,

[00:18:46] but they arrested Lyle first.

[00:18:48] That's right,

[00:18:49] because I guess

[00:18:50] when he made the confession,

[00:18:51] he said that

[00:18:52] they had done it together,

[00:18:54] but then Eric

[00:18:55] had then left

[00:18:56] to go to Israel

[00:18:57] to play tennis.

[00:18:58] So they arrested

[00:18:58] whoever was in the States,

[00:18:59] and then when his brother

[00:19:00] got back,

[00:19:00] they turned it.

[00:19:01] Yeah.

[00:19:02] Okay.

[00:19:02] No,

[00:19:02] that's a good question.

[00:19:03] So,

[00:19:04] Alana,

[00:19:04] the prosecution claimed

[00:19:05] that the murders occurred

[00:19:07] for the same reason

[00:19:08] that they occurred

[00:19:09] in Eric's screenplay

[00:19:10] to claim an inheritance.

[00:19:12] So when details emerged,

[00:19:13] it came out

[00:19:14] that the Menendez brothers

[00:19:15] killed their parents

[00:19:16] at 10 p.m.

[00:19:18] using shotguns

[00:19:19] that Eric had purchased

[00:19:20] in San Diego.

[00:19:21] After the murders,

[00:19:22] they dumped the shotguns

[00:19:23] off of Mulholland Drive

[00:19:25] and one of the local canyons

[00:19:26] before disposing

[00:19:27] of the shotgun shells

[00:19:28] and their bloody clothes

[00:19:30] at a gas station.

[00:19:31] This was all

[00:19:32] before they bought

[00:19:33] movie tickets

[00:19:34] and went looking

[00:19:34] for a friend

[00:19:35] at the Taste of L.A.

[00:19:36] Food Festival.

[00:19:37] All activities done

[00:19:38] to provide evidence

[00:19:39] of an alibi.

[00:19:40] Talk about premeditated murder.

[00:19:42] I mean,

[00:19:42] they really thought out

[00:19:43] this alibi

[00:19:43] and their story.

[00:19:45] Not a spur-of-the-moment crime.

[00:19:47] No,

[00:19:48] especially when you think

[00:19:49] like they purchased

[00:19:49] the guns in advance.

[00:19:51] Yeah.

[00:19:52] I'm with you there,

[00:19:53] Alana.

[00:19:54] So in an effort

[00:19:55] to contradict

[00:19:56] the prosecution's claims

[00:19:57] that Lyle and Eric

[00:19:58] were out

[00:19:59] only for their inheritance,

[00:20:00] the defense presented

[00:20:02] substantial evidence

[00:20:03] that the murders occurred

[00:20:04] as the result

[00:20:04] of years and years

[00:20:06] of sexual abuse

[00:20:07] by Jose Menendez.

[00:20:08] Others admitted

[00:20:09] to killing their parents

[00:20:10] but claimed

[00:20:10] what is called

[00:20:11] imperfect self-defense,

[00:20:14] arguing that

[00:20:14] because of a history

[00:20:15] of sexual

[00:20:16] and psychological abuse

[00:20:17] by their father,

[00:20:19] they believed,

[00:20:20] honestly though mistakenly,

[00:20:22] that their parents

[00:20:23] were about to kill them.

[00:20:24] In court,

[00:20:25] Eric testified

[00:20:26] the molestation

[00:20:27] began when he was six.

[00:20:29] At age 17,

[00:20:30] he resisted

[00:20:31] and his father,

[00:20:32] quote,

[00:20:32] threw me on the bed

[00:20:34] and went to get a knife

[00:20:35] and put it out my throat.

[00:20:37] Eric hoped that attending

[00:20:38] the University of California,

[00:20:39] Los Angeles

[00:20:40] in the fall of 1989

[00:20:41] would provide an escape.

[00:20:44] But Jose Menendez's edict

[00:20:46] that his youngest son

[00:20:47] return home

[00:20:47] several nights each week

[00:20:49] was upsetting

[00:20:50] to the 18-year-old Eric,

[00:20:51] which caused him

[00:20:52] to confide

[00:20:53] in his 21-year-old brother,

[00:20:55] Lyle.

[00:20:56] A photograph

[00:20:57] was presented

[00:20:57] as physical evidence

[00:20:58] by the defense

[00:20:59] showing Lyle

[00:21:00] and Eric's genitalia

[00:21:01] allegedly taken

[00:21:02] by their father

[00:21:03] when they were children.

[00:21:04] Man.

[00:21:05] No.

[00:21:06] And during the trial,

[00:21:07] Lyle said that

[00:21:08] his father began

[00:21:09] molesting him

[00:21:09] when he was six years old,

[00:21:11] raping him

[00:21:12] and making him

[00:21:13] perform oral sex.

[00:21:15] Lyle said that

[00:21:16] his father stopped

[00:21:17] molesting him

[00:21:17] after a few years,

[00:21:18] but it didn't occur

[00:21:20] to him until years later

[00:21:21] that he did so

[00:21:22] because he began

[00:21:23] molesting his brother,

[00:21:24] Eric.

[00:21:26] These claims

[00:21:26] were supported

[00:21:27] by two Menendez

[00:21:28] family members.

[00:21:29] A cousin,

[00:21:30] Andy Cano,

[00:21:31] said that as a child,

[00:21:32] he was told by Eric

[00:21:33] about the sexual abuse,

[00:21:35] which both brothers

[00:21:36] described as,

[00:21:37] quote,

[00:21:38] penis massages.

[00:21:39] Another cousin,

[00:21:40] Diane Vander Molen,

[00:21:42] said that she once

[00:21:43] told Kitty

[00:21:44] that Jose was

[00:21:44] molesting Lyle,

[00:21:46] but Kitty told her

[00:21:47] that wasn't true.

[00:21:48] By January 1994,

[00:21:50] the trial was wrapping up.

[00:21:52] The Menendez brothers

[00:21:53] were each being tried

[00:21:54] by separate juries.

[00:21:56] Jurors on Eric's jury

[00:21:58] deliberated for 19 days

[00:22:00] before telling the judge

[00:22:01] they were deadlocked.

[00:22:03] Lyle's jury took longer,

[00:22:04] 25 days,

[00:22:05] but ultimately

[00:22:06] deadlocked as well.

[00:22:08] A retrial took place

[00:22:09] in 1996,

[00:22:10] and this trial

[00:22:11] varied slightly

[00:22:12] from the first one.

[00:22:13] First,

[00:22:14] the judge did not

[00:22:15] allow TV cameras

[00:22:16] into the courtroom.

[00:22:17] The judge limited

[00:22:18] the amount of testimony

[00:22:19] about the sexual abuse claims,

[00:22:21] citing a state Supreme Court

[00:22:23] ruling in another case,

[00:22:24] and because he didn't

[00:22:26] allow the testimony

[00:22:27] about the sexual abuse,

[00:22:28] there was not a reason

[00:22:29] to allow the jury

[00:22:30] to decide between

[00:22:31] manslaughter and murder.

[00:22:33] So in this trial,

[00:22:34] the jury's only choice

[00:22:36] was murder,

[00:22:37] guilty or not guilty.

[00:22:39] In the second trial,

[00:22:40] both boys were found guilty,

[00:22:42] and on July 2nd, 1996,

[00:22:44] the judge sentenced

[00:22:45] the Menendez brothers

[00:22:46] to life in prison

[00:22:47] without the possibility

[00:22:48] of parole.

[00:22:50] And Alana,

[00:22:51] you would think

[00:22:51] this is where

[00:22:52] our story wraps up,

[00:22:53] but in some ways

[00:22:53] it's really just

[00:22:54] getting started.

[00:22:55] Oh my gosh.

[00:22:56] I can't imagine.

[00:22:58] This is horrifying.

[00:22:59] Do you all remember

[00:23:00] following this story

[00:23:01] when it came out?

[00:23:02] Vaguely.

[00:23:03] Yeah.

[00:23:04] Vaguely.

[00:23:05] So journalist Robert Rand,

[00:23:07] who covered the trial

[00:23:08] and has since written

[00:23:09] a book about

[00:23:10] the Menendez brothers,

[00:23:11] is quoted as saying,

[00:23:12] the streets of California

[00:23:13] are not safer

[00:23:14] because Eric and Lyle Menendez

[00:23:16] are locked up in prison.

[00:23:17] In general,

[00:23:19] our cultural awareness

[00:23:20] and tolerance

[00:23:20] for parental abuse

[00:23:21] has changed significantly

[00:23:23] since the Menendez brothers

[00:23:24] were originally tried

[00:23:25] and convicted

[00:23:26] in the mid-90s.

[00:23:28] In a recent interview

[00:23:29] with Court TV,

[00:23:30] Rosie O'Donnell,

[00:23:31] herself a victim

[00:23:32] of childhood sexual abuse,

[00:23:33] says,

[00:23:34] our culture was not ready

[00:23:35] to believe

[00:23:36] that fathers raped their sons.

[00:23:38] I know what it's like

[00:23:39] to grow up in a family

[00:23:40] with that kind of dynamic.

[00:23:41] I believe them.

[00:23:42] I believe they were incested.

[00:23:44] They felt that they were

[00:23:45] going to be killed

[00:23:46] by the father.

[00:23:48] Now,

[00:23:48] fast forward to the pandemic

[00:23:50] and Gen Zers

[00:23:51] rediscovered

[00:23:52] the Menendez trial

[00:23:53] and were overwhelmingly

[00:23:54] horrified by the treatment

[00:23:56] of the Menendez brothers

[00:23:57] as it related to their

[00:23:58] physical and mental abuse.

[00:24:01] An entire movement

[00:24:02] on TikTok

[00:24:03] and other social media platforms

[00:24:05] is dedicated

[00:24:05] to freeing

[00:24:06] the Menendez brothers.

[00:24:08] In a New York Times article

[00:24:09] titled

[00:24:10] The New Menendez Defenders,

[00:24:11] Sharon Ross,

[00:24:12] who is a professor

[00:24:13] of media studies

[00:24:14] at Columbia College

[00:24:15] in Chicago

[00:24:16] and also studies

[00:24:17] television

[00:24:17] and fan behavior,

[00:24:19] writes,

[00:24:19] The boom

[00:24:20] in true crime

[00:24:21] alongside,

[00:24:22] quote,

[00:24:23] short-form social media

[00:24:24] like TikTok

[00:24:24] that encourages

[00:24:26] bite-sized,

[00:24:27] high-impact posts

[00:24:28] that aim to generate

[00:24:29] reactions

[00:24:30] has fueled debate

[00:24:31] among young people

[00:24:32] online on big-picture issues

[00:24:34] such as how we define

[00:24:35] truth,

[00:24:36] justice,

[00:24:37] and equity.

[00:24:38] But the law

[00:24:39] doesn't respond

[00:24:40] to TikTok trends

[00:24:41] and in order for

[00:24:41] the Menendez brothers

[00:24:42] to get a new trial,

[00:24:43] new evidence

[00:24:44] not available

[00:24:45] during the first trial

[00:24:46] has to be presented.

[00:24:48] Two key pieces

[00:24:50] of evidence

[00:24:50] may do just that.

[00:24:52] So I told you earlier

[00:24:54] about Lyle and Eric's cousin

[00:24:55] who testified

[00:24:56] that the brothers

[00:24:57] told him

[00:24:58] about their dad's

[00:24:59] sexual abuse

[00:24:59] towards them.

[00:25:00] A letter written

[00:25:01] by Eric

[00:25:02] to this cousin

[00:25:03] only eight months

[00:25:04] prior to the murders

[00:25:05] was recently found

[00:25:06] and in part reads,

[00:25:09] I've been trying

[00:25:09] to avoid dad.

[00:25:10] It's still happening,

[00:25:12] Andy,

[00:25:12] but it's worse

[00:25:13] for me now.

[00:25:13] I can't explain it.

[00:25:15] He's so overweight

[00:25:17] that I can't stand

[00:25:17] to see him.

[00:25:18] I never know

[00:25:19] when it's going

[00:25:20] to happen

[00:25:20] and it's driving

[00:25:21] me crazy.

[00:25:22] Every night

[00:25:23] I stay up

[00:25:24] thinking he might come.

[00:25:25] I don't know

[00:25:26] I'll make it

[00:25:26] through this.

[00:25:28] An L.A. Superior

[00:25:29] Court judge

[00:25:30] ordered Los Angeles

[00:25:31] District Attorney

[00:25:32] George Gascon,

[00:25:33] whose office

[00:25:34] prosecuted

[00:25:35] the Menendez brothers,

[00:25:36] to explain

[00:25:37] whether his lawyers

[00:25:38] exercised due diligence

[00:25:40] in pursuing evidence

[00:25:41] that their father,

[00:25:42] Jose,

[00:25:42] was in fact abusive.

[00:25:45] The prosecution

[00:25:46] would repeatedly

[00:25:47] tell the jury

[00:25:47] that Jose Menendez

[00:25:48] was, quote,

[00:25:49] not the kind of man

[00:25:50] that would abuse children,

[00:25:52] insisting that he

[00:25:53] was not violent

[00:25:54] and not brutal.

[00:25:55] The judge

[00:25:56] wants Gascon

[00:25:56] to explain

[00:25:57] how diligently

[00:25:58] his office

[00:25:58] dug into

[00:25:59] the claims

[00:25:59] of abuse

[00:26:00] or Jose Menendez's

[00:26:02] behavior

[00:26:02] at the time

[00:26:03] of the killings.

[00:26:04] Much of the evidence

[00:26:05] of abuse

[00:26:06] was excluded,

[00:26:07] the judge wrote

[00:26:07] in the recently

[00:26:08] filed order.

[00:26:10] Gascon's office

[00:26:10] has until

[00:26:11] November 24th

[00:26:12] to answer

[00:26:12] that order.

[00:26:13] So by the time

[00:26:14] this airs,

[00:26:15] we'll have an update

[00:26:15] on that portion

[00:26:16] of this story.

[00:26:17] Make sure you

[00:26:18] follow us on Instagram

[00:26:19] for those updates.

[00:26:20] The Menendez's

[00:26:22] brother's current

[00:26:22] attorney,

[00:26:23] Mark Garagos,

[00:26:24] who is maybe

[00:26:24] best known

[00:26:25] for representing

[00:26:25] Scott Peterson

[00:26:26] in the death

[00:26:27] of his wife

[00:26:27] Lacey Peterson

[00:26:28] and their unborn son,

[00:26:30] has also filed

[00:26:31] a writ of habeas corpus

[00:26:32] with the L.A. Superior Court.

[00:26:35] So I had to look

[00:26:36] this up.

[00:26:37] Habeas corpus

[00:26:37] is Latin

[00:26:38] for that

[00:26:40] you have

[00:26:40] the body

[00:26:41] and it's generally

[00:26:42] the format

[00:26:42] in which a federal

[00:26:43] court can decide

[00:26:45] if the state's

[00:26:46] detention of a

[00:26:47] prisoner is valid

[00:26:48] or not.

[00:26:49] So according

[00:26:50] to this writ,

[00:26:50] newly discovered

[00:26:51] evidence directly

[00:26:52] supports the defense

[00:26:53] presented at trial

[00:26:54] and just as

[00:26:56] directly undercuts

[00:26:57] the state's case

[00:26:58] against the petitioner.

[00:27:00] The attorney argues

[00:27:01] that the evidence

[00:27:01] that has come to light

[00:27:02] could have led

[00:27:03] to a different

[00:27:03] outcome at trial

[00:27:04] had it been

[00:27:06] presented in

[00:27:06] the brother's defense.

[00:27:08] Now, remember

[00:27:09] that Jose Menendez

[00:27:10] was in the

[00:27:10] entertainment industry

[00:27:11] and before he moved

[00:27:13] to California

[00:27:13] to work for Paramount,

[00:27:14] he worked at

[00:27:15] RCA Records

[00:27:16] where he was

[00:27:17] responsible for

[00:27:17] the success

[00:27:18] of several boy bands

[00:27:19] including the

[00:27:20] Puerto Rican group

[00:27:21] Menudo,

[00:27:22] the same band

[00:27:23] where Ricky Martin

[00:27:24] got his start

[00:27:24] in the mid to late 80s.

[00:27:26] A former member

[00:27:27] of the band

[00:27:28] has recently come forward

[00:27:29] to say that he was

[00:27:30] also molested

[00:27:31] by Jose Menendez.

[00:27:33] Roy Rossello

[00:27:34] joined Menudo

[00:27:35] in 1983

[00:27:36] when he was

[00:27:36] 13 years old,

[00:27:38] 15 year old

[00:27:39] Xavier Serbia.

[00:27:40] His story is told

[00:27:42] in a new

[00:27:42] three-part

[00:27:43] docuseries

[00:27:43] on Peacock.

[00:27:45] He says that

[00:27:45] a year after

[00:27:46] joining the band

[00:27:47] he was drugged

[00:27:48] and raped

[00:27:48] by Jose Menendez

[00:27:49] in the Menendez

[00:27:50] family's

[00:27:51] New Jersey home.

[00:27:53] In this series

[00:27:54] Eric is quoted

[00:27:54] as saying

[00:27:55] I remember

[00:27:56] my father

[00:27:57] taking one of the kids

[00:27:58] saying he wanted

[00:27:58] to talk to them alone

[00:27:59] and they went off

[00:28:00] into the house

[00:28:01] upstairs.

[00:28:03] Roy Rossello's

[00:28:04] claims were also

[00:28:05] mentioned in the

[00:28:06] habeas corpus

[00:28:07] petition

[00:28:07] that Mark Garrico

[00:28:08] filed on behalf

[00:28:09] of the Menendez

[00:28:10] brothers.

[00:28:13] He claims that

[00:28:14] had the jury

[00:28:15] been presented

[00:28:15] with this evidence

[00:28:16] in 1996

[00:28:17] Eric and Lyle

[00:28:19] may not have been

[00:28:19] sentenced to life

[00:28:20] in prison

[00:28:21] without the possibility

[00:28:22] of parole.

[00:28:23] The theory of defense

[00:28:24] at both trials

[00:28:25] was straightforward.

[00:28:26] Either Eric

[00:28:27] nor Lyle

[00:28:27] denied the shooting.

[00:28:29] Instead the crime

[00:28:29] was manslaughter

[00:28:30] not murder.

[00:28:31] The killings

[00:28:32] occurred in

[00:28:33] imperfect self-defense

[00:28:34] after a lifetime

[00:28:34] of physical

[00:28:35] and sexual abuse

[00:28:36] from their parents

[00:28:37] the petition states.

[00:28:38] The state's

[00:28:39] theory in both trials

[00:28:40] was also

[00:28:41] straightforward.

[00:28:42] The state's

[00:28:43] theory in both trials

[00:28:44] was also

[00:28:44] straightforward.

[00:28:46] Eric and Lyle

[00:28:47] were lying about

[00:28:48] the sexual abuse.

[00:28:49] It never happened.

[00:28:50] They had killed

[00:28:51] their parents

[00:28:52] not in imperfect

[00:28:53] self-defense

[00:28:53] but to inherit

[00:28:54] their parents' money

[00:28:55] the filing continues.

[00:28:58] Had jurors

[00:28:59] seen the letter

[00:28:59] that Eric Menendez

[00:29:00] wrote to Andy Kano

[00:29:01] and learned

[00:29:02] that Jose Menendez

[00:29:03] had raped

[00:29:04] a 13 or 14

[00:29:06] year old boy

[00:29:07] in 1984

[00:29:08] the prosecutor

[00:29:09] would not have

[00:29:10] been able to argue

[00:29:11] that the abuse

[00:29:12] never happened

[00:29:12] the attorneys argued.

[00:29:14] In short

[00:29:15] the new evidence

[00:29:15] not only shows

[00:29:16] that Jose Menendez

[00:29:17] was very much

[00:29:18] a violent

[00:29:18] and brutal man

[00:29:19] who had sexually

[00:29:20] abused children

[00:29:21] but it strongly

[00:29:22] suggests that

[00:29:22] in fact

[00:29:23] he was still

[00:29:24] abusing

[00:29:24] Eric Menendez

[00:29:25] as late

[00:29:26] as December

[00:29:26] 1988

[00:29:28] just as the defense

[00:29:29] had argued

[00:29:30] all along

[00:29:30] the petition states.

[00:29:32] Netflix is turning

[00:29:33] its eye

[00:29:34] onto the Menendez

[00:29:34] case

[00:29:35] and will be

[00:29:35] focusing

[00:29:36] on the murders

[00:29:37] and trial

[00:29:38] in the upcoming

[00:29:38] 2024

[00:29:39] second season

[00:29:40] of its anthology

[00:29:42] series Monsters

[00:29:43] directed by

[00:29:43] Ryan Murphy.

[00:29:45] So whoo

[00:29:46] that's where

[00:29:46] we are now.

[00:29:47] That's a lot.

[00:29:48] Yeah.

[00:29:48] A lot of information.

[00:29:49] Do you need a drink of water?

[00:29:50] I do.

[00:29:50] Yeah.

[00:29:51] Let me do that real quick.

[00:29:52] Yeah.

[00:29:53] That's a lot

[00:29:53] to digest

[00:29:56] and at

[00:29:57] you know

[00:29:57] at first

[00:29:58] on the

[00:29:58] surface of the story

[00:30:00] it seems like

[00:30:01] oh yeah

[00:30:01] they killed their parents

[00:30:02] they spent all this money

[00:30:04] they went on spending sprees

[00:30:05] they had no remorse

[00:30:06] but then when you look at it

[00:30:07] from the eyes of someone

[00:30:08] who had been

[00:30:09] abused by their father

[00:30:10] and ignored by their mother

[00:30:11] for years

[00:30:13] it's just

[00:30:15] a whole nother spin

[00:30:16] like a whole nother way

[00:30:17] to look at it.

[00:30:18] Both scenarios

[00:30:18] are heartbreaking

[00:30:19] but that one especially.

[00:30:21] Yeah.

[00:30:21] And I think

[00:30:22] you know

[00:30:22] I think the question is

[00:30:23] if it was manslaughter

[00:30:25] because again

[00:30:25] there's no question

[00:30:26] that they killed their parents

[00:30:27] they admitted to that

[00:30:30] but what would the sentence have been

[00:30:31] and have they already served

[00:30:33] what would have been the sentence

[00:30:34] for their manslaughter conviction?

[00:30:36] Yeah.

[00:30:37] Okay.

[00:30:38] So let's go back to the house

[00:30:39] for a minute.

[00:30:39] So

[00:30:40] Jose and Kitty

[00:30:41] didn't live to see their house

[00:30:42] in Calabasas completed.

[00:30:44] Remember that was the very first

[00:30:45] when they started to remodel.

[00:30:47] And so

[00:30:48] that's not the house

[00:30:49] they were living in

[00:30:50] at the time of their murders

[00:30:51] but despite it not being

[00:30:52] a crime scene

[00:30:53] its connection to the case

[00:30:54] still hurts its resale value.

[00:30:56] According to the LA Times

[00:30:58] the house was sold

[00:30:59] at auction in 1994

[00:31:00] to Raymond

[00:31:01] and Vera Stewart

[00:31:02] for $1.3 million

[00:31:05] well under the initial

[00:31:07] appraised value

[00:31:08] of $2.65 million.

[00:31:10] It sold again in 2022

[00:31:12] for $4.4 million

[00:31:13] and we have a great video

[00:31:15] made by the real estate agents

[00:31:17] selling the house

[00:31:17] that we've linked

[00:31:18] in our show notes

[00:31:19] and socials

[00:31:19] if you want to check it out.

[00:31:21] Now as for the house

[00:31:22] at 722 North Elm Drive

[00:31:24] where the murders occurred

[00:31:26] it's been sold twice.

[00:31:28] In 1993

[00:31:29] it was sold

[00:31:30] to mystery television writer

[00:31:31] William Link

[00:31:32] who was the co-creator

[00:31:34] of Columbo

[00:31:35] and Murder She Wrote

[00:31:36] to name a few.

[00:31:37] Seems appropriate.

[00:31:38] Right.

[00:31:38] Right?

[00:31:38] You know we've

[00:31:40] we've actually recently watched

[00:31:42] some of the old

[00:31:44] Columbo episodes.

[00:31:45] they kind of hold up

[00:31:46] actually

[00:31:47] and weirdly enough

[00:31:49] the very first

[00:31:49] Columbo episode

[00:31:51] was directed

[00:31:52] by a very

[00:31:54] very very young

[00:31:55] Steven Spielberg.

[00:31:57] Oh interesting.

[00:31:58] Yeah.

[00:31:59] That's fascinating.

[00:32:00] Sorry.

[00:32:00] Just thought they had

[00:32:01] to do something random.

[00:32:02] That's good.

[00:32:04] Okay so in 2001

[00:32:05] this house was sold again

[00:32:06] to telecommunications exec

[00:32:08] Sam Deluge

[00:32:09] and when it was listed

[00:32:11] in 2001

[00:32:12] it was on the market

[00:32:13] for 4.15 million dollars

[00:32:15] so really only like

[00:32:16] 150,000 more

[00:32:18] than the Menendez family

[00:32:19] paid for it

[00:32:20] 35 years ago.

[00:32:21] The house underwent

[00:32:22] major renovations

[00:32:24] in 20

[00:32:24] excuse me

[00:32:25] in 2002

[00:32:25] and while it sounds

[00:32:27] like the interior

[00:32:28] was pretty much

[00:32:29] gutted and redone

[00:32:30] the exterior looks

[00:32:31] very much the same

[00:32:32] as it did

[00:32:33] when the Menendez family

[00:32:34] lived in the home.

[00:32:35] For our Bravo fans

[00:32:36] Sam Deluge

[00:32:37] and his ex-wife

[00:32:38] Rosette Deluge

[00:32:40] sold another house

[00:32:41] to Lisa Vanderpump

[00:32:42] of Bravo's

[00:32:43] Vanderpump Rules fame.

[00:32:45] Are you a Bravo fan?

[00:32:47] No.

[00:32:48] Okay.

[00:32:49] Melania's I bet.

[00:32:50] I'm a very big

[00:32:51] below deck fan.

[00:32:53] Oh below deck

[00:32:53] is what that means.

[00:32:54] So I'm very specific

[00:32:55] about my Bravo.

[00:32:57] I watch every type

[00:32:57] of below deck

[00:32:58] but I don't go

[00:32:59] into some of the others.

[00:33:00] Okay.

[00:33:01] All right ladies

[00:33:02] so knowing this

[00:33:04] what do you think?

[00:33:05] Would you list it?

[00:33:05] Would you live there?

[00:33:07] Elena you always

[00:33:08] surprise me.

[00:33:09] Well yes

[00:33:09] I would list both houses.

[00:33:12] I would actually

[00:33:14] live in the house

[00:33:15] in Calabasas

[00:33:16] I think

[00:33:17] since they never

[00:33:18] lived there.

[00:33:19] Yeah you should

[00:33:20] see the pictures too.

[00:33:21] It's pretty darn nice.

[00:33:22] Yeah okay

[00:33:22] so then that's a

[00:33:23] definite yes

[00:33:24] and no on the other one.

[00:33:27] Yeah.

[00:33:27] Where they actually

[00:33:28] were killed.

[00:33:29] Yeah I think

[00:33:30] for me

[00:33:31] I'm with you.

[00:33:32] I agree on everything

[00:33:33] you just said

[00:33:34] on the same page

[00:33:35] but I think

[00:33:36] the fact

[00:33:37] that he was

[00:33:38] abused in that home

[00:33:39] is more upsetting

[00:33:40] to me

[00:33:41] than the murder.

[00:33:42] That would be

[00:33:43] hard for me.

[00:33:44] What about you Mel?

[00:33:45] Yeah I agree.

[00:33:47] You know

[00:33:48] and it's really

[00:33:48] it really shows

[00:33:50] kind of society's

[00:33:52] bias against

[00:33:53] male on

[00:33:54] male

[00:33:56] like

[00:33:56] father son

[00:33:58] kind of child abuse

[00:33:59] because

[00:34:00] we think about

[00:34:01] fathers

[00:34:02] abusing

[00:34:03] unfortunately

[00:34:04] daughters

[00:34:05] and

[00:34:06] you know

[00:34:06] we don't really

[00:34:07] think about it

[00:34:08] so it can

[00:34:09] kind of

[00:34:09] like at first blush

[00:34:10] I was

[00:34:11] I was like

[00:34:11] really?

[00:34:12] Interesting

[00:34:12] and especially

[00:34:13] when I was thinking

[00:34:13] these were

[00:34:15] teenagers

[00:34:15] and you know

[00:34:17] big boys

[00:34:18] these aren't

[00:34:18] small kids

[00:34:19] but yet

[00:34:20] we're still

[00:34:20] being abused

[00:34:21] even as late

[00:34:23] as

[00:34:24] like that time period

[00:34:25] at least

[00:34:26] one of the boys

[00:34:27] was at that point

[00:34:28] so yeah

[00:34:29] it just gives a whole

[00:34:31] feel

[00:34:32] and obviously

[00:34:34] it's a beautiful house

[00:34:36] but it is not hidden

[00:34:37] like that area

[00:34:38] of Beverly Hills

[00:34:40] it's not behind a gauge

[00:34:41] or anything like that

[00:34:42] it's actually

[00:34:43] very very accessible

[00:34:45] if you're down

[00:34:46] in the

[00:34:46] in the retail district

[00:34:48] to even just walk

[00:34:49] over there

[00:34:49] which is

[00:34:50] you know

[00:34:50] cool if you're out

[00:34:51] in LA

[00:34:52] being a tourist

[00:34:53] not so cool

[00:34:54] probably if you're

[00:34:55] a homeowner

[00:34:55] and you have

[00:34:56] a notorious

[00:34:57] house

[00:34:57] yeah

[00:34:58] that's smart

[00:34:59] that makes me

[00:34:59] think about

[00:35:00] what Adrian said

[00:35:01] about her

[00:35:01] the house

[00:35:02] that she lived

[00:35:03] in that Polly

[00:35:03] Class was kidnapped

[00:35:04] from that just

[00:35:05] the number of people

[00:35:06] that constantly

[00:35:07] come by

[00:35:08] I think you have

[00:35:08] to be prepared

[00:35:09] for that

[00:35:09] for sure

[00:35:09] yeah I mean

[00:35:10] if it's kind of

[00:35:11] hard to get to

[00:35:11] up in the mountains

[00:35:12] or hills

[00:35:13] okay

[00:35:13] but if you're

[00:35:14] in a very

[00:35:15] tourist

[00:35:15] neighborhood

[00:35:16] that you're

[00:35:17] like oh

[00:35:17] it's only like

[00:35:18] a couple of

[00:35:19] minutes from

[00:35:20] you know

[00:35:20] Wilshire Drive

[00:35:21] let's just go

[00:35:21] take a look

[00:35:22] at it

[00:35:22] yeah that's

[00:35:23] frustrating

[00:35:24] so do you

[00:35:25] think they'll

[00:35:25] get a new

[00:35:26] trial

[00:35:26] I mean

[00:35:27] because we're

[00:35:27] recording this

[00:35:28] a little bit

[00:35:28] before the

[00:35:29] November 24th

[00:35:30] deadline

[00:35:31] I think

[00:35:32] it seems so

[00:35:33] I'd sort of

[00:35:34] be surprised

[00:35:35] if they don't

[00:35:36] yeah

[00:35:36] I mean

[00:35:36] I say with

[00:35:37] my legal

[00:35:38] theory

[00:35:39] well you

[00:35:39] researched it

[00:35:40] really well

[00:35:40] thank you

[00:35:41] I appreciate

[00:35:41] that

[00:35:42] you're welcome

[00:35:43] all right

[00:35:43] well

[00:35:44] we hope

[00:35:45] that you

[00:35:45] found this

[00:35:46] this podcast

[00:35:47] informative

[00:35:47] and learned

[00:35:49] something you

[00:35:49] didn't know

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[00:35:54] yeah

[00:35:55] thank you

[00:35:56] hey y'all

[00:36:03] thanks for

[00:36:04] listening and

[00:36:05] being a part

[00:36:05] of our

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[00:36:07] curious about

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