Vanished - The McStay Family Mystery

[00:00:04] At the intersection of true crime and real estate, you'll find Crime Estate. I'm Heather. And my name is Elena. As real estate agents and true crime junkies, we view crimes through a different lens. So walk through the door of some of the most notorious true crimes with us and discover how sometimes the scene of the crime has its own story to tell. Welcome back to Crime Estate, where your favorite real estate agents talk true crime and the houses.

[00:00:33] Where those crimes occurred. I'm Heather, joined as always by my dear friend and fellow realtor Elena and our producer and commentator Melanie. Hey ladies. Hey, where was this poll where we were voted everyone's favorite realtors? I may have taken a little bit of poetic license there. Okay, I'm okay with that. Maybe I should say your favorite realtor podcasters. Like surely people don't have more than one of those. So we're just automatically. Yeah, I like it by default. Okay. I'll take a win that way.

[00:01:00] Yeah. So speaking of that, if you love the show, you can now support us by buying us a cup of coffee. Okay, let's be honest. It's probably a glass of wine. Um, so what are y'all drinking for today's podcast? Heather's favorite drink. It is my favorite drink. I love a good screwdriver. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I asked my husband last summer. I was down by the pool and I texted him and I said, hey, will you bring me a screwdriver? And he was like, what kind?

[00:01:29] I was like, the kind with orange juice. I was like, oh! Oh! Oh! Did he think you were down there like fixing something? I mean, I am very handy. Oh, okay. I should have known. Okay, that is funny. That was exactly what he went to because I was like, well, you know, sometimes at like a brunch restaurant, she can have it made with cranberry juice. Oh! That was where my mind went. It was like Phillips head, flathead, you know. Oh, yeah. My children inevitably get it wrong.

[00:01:57] Like, you know, my husband's always asking for a screwdriver for something and he'll say like a Phillips and you would think after this time they would remember, but no. It's very easy to, like flathead Phillips. That's very easy to remember. Wow. And your kids are brilliant. They have great strengths and they also have weaknesses as we all do. This sounds like weaponized incompetence to me. Oh! They have decided that they cannot figure out what the screwdriver's horse. I like that.

[00:02:27] Oh, I would love to have weaponized incompetence. I actually had a former boss who, highly successful gentleman, but he prided himself on his incompetence or his just, I don't know, I just can't do laundry. I just don't know how to do laundry. I had asked him if he had been grocery shopping in a while. He's like, no, I haven't grocery shopped in years. I just, you know, I know what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.

[00:02:56] I was like, oh. I don't like that. Yeah. No, I, his wife was a, is a saint. Well, I bet. So seriously, we'd love your help in supporting the show. You can find the links to buy us a cup of coffee in our show notes on our website, crimeestate.com or on any of our socials. And with that out of the way, do I want to jump in today's podcast? Let's do it. Okay, cool. So this story is one that I remember hearing about in the periphery of having my first kiddo, like within days of all of this making national news.

[00:03:24] On February 4th, 2010, the mixed day family disappeared from their Fallbrook, California home. Fallbrook is an unincorporated community in San Diego and it's about 15 miles inland from the Pacific ocean in a short drive to Temecula and Escondido. Fallbrook is known as the avocado capital of the world. Um, that doesn't sound right because avocados from Mexico is totally going through my head right now. I feel like they definitely did better on the marketing. Yes. Yeah.

[00:03:51] I mean, I guess if you're just an unincorporated community, you don't have the marketing budget. So Mexico went out in front of them. Yeah, totally. So we talked about unincorporated areas before. It's basically an area that is not recognized as a city or town with its own government and relies on the county government for services instead of a local city council. Yeah. So in broad terms, like unincorporated communities have their own local government and are like part of a city or a town.

[00:04:21] I'm sorry, that's incorporated. And then unincorporated communities are not a part of a city or a town and they're sort of governed by the county. Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So the McStay family consisted of Joseph age 40, summer 43 and their sons Gianni four and Joseph junior three. They lived together at three, four, seven, three avocado Vista lane. Of course they did. Avocado Vista. Yeah. I have a feeling that that town has a lot of different like avocado main street, avocado

[00:04:51] Vista, like, you know, avocado drive. Yeah. It's like when we lived in Durham, everything was Chapel Hill road or Chapel Hill lane or West Chapel Hill. Which, like which one? Yeah. Yeah. And it's also just east of Camp Pendleton, which is one of the major, you know, it's the Marine Corps, Marine Corps base in San Diego, which is a lot of the economy in San Diego not is has something to do with Camp Pendleton.

[00:05:21] So I, you know, one of our family friends was stationed there for a long time. And, and that's where a lot of people, they might go there because they're stationed. And then even when they're out of the Marines, they settle there because you know, the weather's lovely. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I think Melanie, you have a picture of the family you're going to throw up there now. Yeah. But I always think it's weird when one of the children is a junior, but it's not the oldest son. Yeah. That got the dad's name. I think that's weird too. Yeah.

[00:05:49] We had to double check that to make sure that we were right. Yeah. And yeah. And the kids have, I mean, these lovely kids, this picture is so cute. But they have like very Italian, like middle names, like, like Gianni, Matteo, you know, like they're long names with a lot of Italian in there, which is kind of funny. Yeah. I don't think that either of them are Italian. You just think it's partly that dads name their firstborn son after them if you're going to have a junior.

[00:06:19] So then I have all sorts of psychology questions about like, if you grow up and you're the oldest, but your younger brother's a junior, like, do you feel like less than your whole life? Oh. Wow. I didn't think about that. I mean, why didn't you get that name? Ooh. That's interesting. Okay. We'll have to file that early. Okay. Yeah. We'll dig into that later. Okay. I like that. Sounds good. Now, 3473 Avocado Vista was not unlike the other homes in their safe and peaceful semi-rural neighborhood.

[00:06:49] Look at it on a cul-de-sac. Like, the two-story, four-bedroom, three-bath home sat on a half acre of land and was built in the early 1990s. Side note, don't you love a good cul-de-sac? I really do. I love a cul-de-sac. I grew up on a cul-de-sac. We were pretty tight in the street. I spent many summers riding around the circle and I even have a scar on my chin from like I have a scar on my chin from riding around a cul-de-sac. Seriously? Yes. Weird. Yeah. See, we were meant to be friends. I think so. I think so.

[00:07:19] Yeah. And I'm kind of showing, we have that small picture. It's on our front page. And honestly, this house looks like what I would imagine a San Diego house built in the 90s looks like, you know, vaguely Mediterranean, you know, Spanish style. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like a nice safe neighborhood. So the last description of the property read, Great Lake Rancho Viejo community boasts

[00:07:44] a five bedroom, three bath home, sits on a cul-de-sac with nice mountain slash hill views, family room with fireplace plus bonus slash loft. Master. Sorry. This listing description is kind of weird, right? It's missing some words. It's like, this is probably back from when you could only have like 250 characters. Oh, and like in the news, baby. Yeah. It feels like there's some transition words lost. Yeah. Okay. Here we go again.

[00:08:13] A loft, huge master bedroom with walk in closet, 2782 square feet of living space, nice size backyard with fruit trees, one bed and bath on main floor, community pool and clubhouse with low HOA, five minutes from Pala Casino and five minutes and five minutes to 15 highway. This is a lot of house for the price not to be missed. I did not like reading that. No, but okay. Anyway. So the family of four purchased the home in November of 2009 for 320,000.

[00:08:43] And at that time of the time our story is taking place, they were in the process of remodeling it. Yeah. So then they had not lived there very long. Just months. The story takes place. Yeah. It's super sad. So Joseph owned and operated a company that built and sold decorative waterfall fountains called Earth inspired products. And Summer was a real estate agent, though it sounds like at this point in her life being a mom to their two boys was her primary role. Yeah. I couldn't find much about her real estate career. Yeah. But his business was really cool.

[00:09:11] Like think about if you walk into a lobby of a commercial building and they have like those cool waterfall displays, like we're not talking like pool waterfalls. He did these really elaborate neat projects. Yeah, totally. So on February 4th, 2010, Joseph McStay was on the phone with his father, Patrick McStay, when he reportedly told his dad he was quote in a hurry because he was on his way to have lunch with Charles Chase Merritt, a business associate.

[00:09:39] I saw a little bit about their relationship. He started fabricating the chase. It started fabricating the waterfalls for Joseph McStay's company. So that's how they became business associates associates. So he and Chase met at Chick-fil-A and discussed the upcoming waterfall orders. The two went on to chat by phone several times that day. And Chase says that when Joseph called him at 822 that evening, he decided to not pick up and just call him back the next day. And I've been there many times like, okay, I've had enough. Yeah.

[00:10:07] I'm drinking a screwdriver. Yeah. I don't want to talk to you. Yeah. Not you. Business associates that are not you. So meanwhile, Summer also had a phone conversation. After speaking to her sister, the family went silent and all communication ceased at approximately 547 PM. Now on the onset, this doesn't raise any flags because the family was known to be spontaneous and go on trips. They were fun and outdoorsy. Joseph looked like a total surfer dude. Are you putting that picture up now?

[00:10:36] Oh, no. Oh, sorry. A picture. I don't know. Joseph looked like a total surfer dude. He had cool curly hair that fell below his chin. And the boys, Gianni and Joseph Jr. had adorable black mop tops. They're super cute. They all looked super fun and adventurous. So meanwhile, on February 8th, the family's 1996 Isuzu trooper was found on the Mexican border. Not knowing that the family was missing yet, it was deemed abandoned and impounded. February 8th, that's Miles' birthday. So. Okay.

[00:11:06] So just to step back and talk about the timing again. So the last conversation that we know of was on the 4th. Yes. And so that's the last thing. And then nobody talks to them after that. And then, but the car was impounded on the 8th. Right. Because no one knows they're missing just yet. A week after anyone had heard from the mixed day family on February 13th, Joseph's younger

[00:11:36] brother, Michael decided to go check the home out at 3473 Avocado Vista Lane. Okay. So just to step back one more time. Um, so it had been a week and so his brother decided to, uh, go look from now. How long would it take for you not to talk to your family before the alarm bell sounded for them? A day, two days maybe. Yeah.

[00:12:00] If my mom calls me and I don't call her back in 20 minutes or text like, Hey, I'll call you back. She's calling, well, she's probably calling Casey first and then she'll call John and then she'll track me to see where I am on the find my friends. Oh, sweet. So, I mean, it would be real short. I think it would take, I think it would take my, you know, family a few days beforehand. I mean, because we talk and text a lot, but you know, we're busy.

[00:12:29] And so, yeah, I think it would take a little while before somebody would say you haven't heard. Now, my sister-in-law, Wendy, she spends every Tuesday night at the house. So if she came to the house and didn't see us there, then she would, you know, that would be a quick way to get an alarm. Um, you know, we're recording this and it's been a month or two since the Gene Hackman story aired about him and his wife.

[00:12:57] And, uh, my, this really, my parents took this really to heart as being, you know, almost 80 themselves and, uh, you know, not, not living close by to any other children. And as much as we chit chat a lot and everyone's sort of busy in their family lifetime period, my brother has a newborn. So, you know, it's, you know, we're, we're in different stages of life. And so my parents have started now every day at 10 a.m.

[00:13:22] Central sending a text to all three of us and just, uh, and like, just like, hi, like today's test was, you know, like, hi, today's beautiful day. We're going to be working in the garden all day. Oh, how cute is that? Uh, and, and so it's smart though. And honestly, yeah, because they live three and a half hours from us and in there like, you know, so if you haven't heard from us in a day or so, you know, you, you might want to reach out. Of course the very, he tells us that he's going to do this. And then the very first day he's late.

[00:13:52] And we're like, come on, dad, you got to be on time. So he's like, I set an alarm. Now we'll be on time for now. But it actually is kind of cute because it's a way for just the kids and mom and dad to, to have like a little ping, like, oh, you know, you know, today's a birthday party day or, oh, you know, Cole's got to model you in today. You know, just a quick little ping doesn't mean we have to have a full conversation. Right. I love that too. Elena, wait, I know we're sort of digressing, but I have to tell you this cause you're going to love it.

[00:14:20] Um, we were in Mexico last spring break and my mom did not want us to go. Oh yeah. And we're there one day and she sends me a text and she's like, Hey, just checking in. How's it going? And I was like, we're great. Having fun. And she was like, she immediately replied back. She was like, I need a picture. Anybody could say that. Oh, prove yourself. I was like, mom, I'm trying to like hang out on the beach and not be on my phone. But I was like, okay. Oh, how cute is that? I love it. Yeah. See, we do things like that.

[00:14:48] Um, but more just with the kids yesterday, you know, Cole had a big competition all day and he's wearing a suit and he gets out of the car and his shirt's not tucked in. And then I'm like, and we made him send us a picture of him with a shirt tucked in the belt on because we were like, okay, we need a little bit of proof that you, uh, did what you say you're going to do. And so he sent us a weird picture of his like waist. And I'm like, oh yeah, I did ask him to do that. Oh, and what I thought was interesting about this story.

[00:15:17] So brother goes and checks on them, but dad had called brother and said like, Hey, can you go check on them? And he didn't immediately. And dad was really mad. He's like, no, go check on him. He's like, I'm sure they're fine. So he does eventually go check. Right? Yeah. Yeah, he does. And does, does his dad or his brother have any, um, stake in the business? No, not that I could find. Okay. I just wasn't sure if it was a business. Yeah. Michael entered the home through an unlocked window, but instead of finding the family,

[00:15:47] he found a carton of eggs rotting on the kitchen counter. The family's two dogs unattended in the backyard without food or water, summer's prescription sunglasses on the counter. And there were also two child side bowls of popcorn sitting on the sofa. At this time, the family were certain that the family would not have been off grid this long without telling them. And so they, you know, talk to Michael, but he wanted to give them through the weekend to come back home. And he waits two more days to call the police. That's weird. I agree.

[00:16:13] I mean, if the rotting eggs on the counter and the dogs without food and water should immediately tell you something's wrong. Yeah, totally. The popcorn's on a red flag because I have that on my counter right now. Yeah. Yeah. The popcorn, I'm, yeah, I go into my son's bedroom. I'm like, what the heck? You know, there's like, there was two things of cereal, dry cereal in his room. And he's just like eating it. Like, I'm like so mad, but you know, eggs, rotten eggs. That's weird.

[00:16:43] By February 15th, the San Diego County Sheriff's Department was notified of the missing mixed days and obtained a search warrant. But get this, it took four days for them to obtain a search warrant. And during that time, Joseph's mom and brother were in and out of the house. They were looking for evidence themselves. And in true mom fashion, she starts cleaning up the mess. The eggs on the counter, the dirty diapers that were there this time, you know, not making the house smell very pretty. Oddly enough, Michael also removed Joseph's computer from the house. Yes.

[00:17:10] And I think that, Heather, one of the things that you had found and that we had seen in some secondary sources. So I don't want to say 100% that it's true, but it was repeated in several different sources was not only did the mom clean up the house, she like bleach cleaned it up. Yeah, that's also weird. And it makes me think the brother was involved. I'm sorry, I'm jumping ahead. Oh, you're fine. That makes me think like, why else would mom, I can see throwing away the dirty diapers

[00:17:40] and the eggs. And I can see looking for clues if you're like, hey, why it took four days to get a search warrant? I have no idea. But the bleaching is weird unless you're just trying to get rid of the smell. But even then, like just open the windows or something. I would be afraid of, like I would want the police to come search and I wouldn't want to get rid of any evidence. Yeah. Yeah. That seems extreme. I mean, I can understand being afraid looking for stuff, but bleach?

[00:18:10] Well, and so you would have had what, like a one week old when this story came out? Yes. And you said like the bleach was the thing that- That's the first thing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I do remember it, like I said, on the periphery. And that's the first thing I remember. I thought that at that time that was weird. Like that's bizarre. But in regard to the search warrant, I think it's because there was no clear evidence that there was foul play involved. Like there was no blood or anything like that. I wonder if that had something to do with it.

[00:18:38] Because I saw that they had, they weren't able to obtain search warrants for his financial records because there was no clear evidence of a homicide. Maybe so. And I mean, I guess, can the family give you permission to search the house? Probably not. They probably did need a warrant for little reasons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So after the police finally get a search warrant and search the home, they were able to surmise that while there was no apparent foul play, there were definite signs that the family made a hasty exit.

[00:19:06] Upon further investigation, they found that the neighbor's security camera caught the McStay's car backing out of the driveway around 740 PM on February 4th. Now remember, there was a phone call made to chase Merritt at 822, which would have been 40 minutes after the car left the house. So by no foul play, they mean like they don't see forced entry. They don't see blood. Like you said, it just looks like they disappeared. Right. Yeah. Just in thin air. Okay. Right.

[00:19:33] I mean, going out to a late dinner or going to get ice cream or, but they're, because they couldn't even see who all was in the car doesn't necessarily mean all four of them were in the car. It could be, I don't know. It doesn't mean it was them at all. It could have been everybody else driving the car, I guess. Yeah. But if it was that late though, that is weird, but the eggs were on the counter still. I was just thinking that unless they were doing like breakfast for dinner, it makes you think like, did something happen that morning? Yeah.

[00:20:02] Or, I mean, or was this just like a normal, somebody was going out, you know, like in my house, I will get some more wine. Um, and it was just going out and the security and maybe they did not park in their garage or maybe they parked out front when they came home and the neighbor security video just didn't capture it to me, you know, that they had come and maybe parked the car somewhere else.

[00:20:27] And then who knows, maybe did they really disappear on the next day on the fifth where like having breakfast, you know, or like something with eggs. I mean, we're narrowing it down to that night, but yet, I mean, the eggs could have been, I think I read somewhere else there was also two cups of cold coffee out on the counter, which could be that maybe they just hadn't cleaned up their dishes. You got little kids, I can, I'm no judge there.

[00:20:56] Um, but, or could it have been really, they're narrowing it down to that night because this, they saw a car leave, but it doesn't really mean that that was the only time the car left. That's true. And let's remember back to having two and three year olds. Um, Mel, you, well, both of you had kids like yours were closer together, I think. But anyway, the point I'm making is what would it have taken for you to load those kids up in the car at 740 and leave the house with them by 740 with a two year old and a three

[00:21:24] year old, you are like pajamas, bedtime, probably even bedtime. Mm hmm. Yeah. And so that's why I'm like, are we just reading into it that this was when they completely left, you know? Um, and that's a lot of assumptions just based upon the fact that the, he, a neighbors, you know, saw a car. Right. I think you're right. I don't know. I like that. That's true. So they had nothing concrete to go on. In fact, because they could not, and I was just saying that because they could not prove

[00:21:52] foul play, they were unable to get the search warrant to check the financial records. Yeah. So I would think though that like, had they been able to look at the financial records, they could have seen like, did they get gas on Monday morning or Tuesday afternoon? Like, where did they stop and go through a McDonald's drive through? Right. If they had had that information, then you would have been able to not only know where they were, but also get more video surveillance. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

[00:22:18] I wonder, I didn't see this in any of the stories I covered, but I don't remember seeing that any of the financial transactions came out afterwards that would have, there were some business transactions, but nothing personal. Right. Yeah. I don't remember seeing that anything like that either. So investigators focused their attention to reconstructing the comings and goings of the family. The last day that they had any communication with anyone and began combing the impounded vehicle for DNA evidence because the car was found in San Ysidro.

[00:22:48] Is that San Ysidro? Is that how y'all would say it? Ysidro. Ysidro. Yeah. Let's just, let's just say you're seeing it right. Which is just North of the border. It was suspected that the family went to Mexico. Mexico. Now this theory really gained legs when border surveillance was released that showed a small group of people walking in Mexico the day of the disappearance. It also revealed that Summer's laptop revealed that she had searched Mexico and tutorials on Spanish. I mean, that sounds plausible.

[00:23:16] I guess they were very close to the Mexican border. Yeah. The car was found there. I can see why they would immediately think like, oh, they've just, I don't know why they would have absconded to Mexico, but. Right. Seems like a legitimate theory. Right. Well, according to Joseph's mom, the family in the video was definitely not that family. Susan Blake, Joseph's mom stated quote, that isn't his walk to producers of documentary killer motives. I think that's fair. I would know my kids walk.

[00:23:45] Well, I mean, so I'm showing the picture, like a screenshot of the video up on the screen. And I mean, it's really far away. I mean, you're looking at somebody in the shadows and it looks like two people then holding the hands of two little boy or kids, not even boys, like little kids. And you're sort of seeing their back if I remember. Oh yeah. There's nothing face. You're not seeing their face. And he is like five, nine in real life. And I think she was like five, five. I mean, I don't know.

[00:24:15] I'd have to see it next to other people. Like kind of looks tall for five, nine on the screen. I don't know. I'm like kind of reading into it, but it's sort of one of those. If you're hopeful, you might think, yes, it's them. If it, if you're not hopeful, you're right. Yeah. Although going back to my theory that the brother did it and the mom helped him cover it up. If that was the case, don't you think she'd been like, oh yeah, that's absolutely them in Mexico. Like just. Yeah.

[00:24:41] But now I thought with border crossings that there's records of passports. I mean, I don't know. This is what 2010. So how much has changed since then? I would think so. And from what I read, uh, summer's passport had expired. Yeah. Well, I don't, I don't know anything about that border or any border, but it said there's a pedestrian bridge. Like, so maybe there's like, maybe can get in somehow different. I don't know. I don't know. Is that a thing? I don't know.

[00:25:11] I guess I've never walked across the border, but I'm pretty sure they're checking passports because think about it. Uh, you know, there's, there's a lot that he could just walk across the pedestrian bridge, right? Yeah. Yeah. I would think so too. And maybe that's how they eventually determined. I mean, could be. Yeah. Because the kids did not have passports. Interesting. Okay. Okay. So, oh, hold on really fast. Um, I'm getting my passport. Oh, I'm so proud of you. Yeah. Erin researched the four of us, uh, we researched everything.

[00:25:40] And so we're excited to get it. Yay. So one, one small step. Now, and now I need to, uh, um, get renew my boys because they expired. So by February 23rd, answer poll was alerted of the missing family and the leads began to come in, but all of them ended up being dead leads. Joseph's dad feeling that the search was not being handled appropriately called the Texas EquiSearch to help them look for them. So yeah.

[00:26:09] Um, I guess dad lived here in Texas. He did. Yeah. So, and Texas EquiSearch is a great organization. Like they often go out on horses and like home areas that people can't easily get to. I'm not familiar with that at all. Yeah. Hmm. Okay. All right. So when Texas EquiSearch walked the house with Patrick and Michael McStay, they noted some oddities in the house. They had left the stroller. Parents with two small children don't leave the house for a long trip without a stroller. Definitely not.

[00:26:38] Um, EquiSearch drove the house to the border and focus on places you could pull off road. He was planning to do a ground search until investigators showed him that the video of what they expected were the McStays walking into Mexico and he called off his search. That's unfortunate. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So there would be traction. There would not be traction in the case for three years. In April, 2010, the case is handed off to the FBI. And I'm showing on the screen, the, um, missing children because that's where you can get a

[00:27:06] lot more traction is with the missing children versus two adults who might've knowing, you know, gone off the grid. And, um, yeah, I mean, Gianni, Giuseppe, Martelli, McStay. And then Joseph, Matteo, Martelli McStay Jr. And then Summer and Joseph McStay. And I, you know, I read that Joseph oftentimes, or at least growing up was always called Joey. I love that.

[00:27:34] So in the fall of 2013, about a hundred miles from Fallbrook in Victorville, California, an off-road motorcyclist found parts of a human skull and two shallow graves, each containing two bodies. They also found a three pound sledgehammer at the site. Examiners were able to ID the bodies of Joseph and Summer through dental records. The San Bernardino Sheriff's department held a news conference and their Mike McStay, Joseph's brother stated quote, it gives us courage to know that they're together and they're in a better place. It's been a tough road.

[00:28:03] I mean, that is three long years of not knowing what happened to your family. I would. Yeah. I mean, not that you ever want that end result, but closure definitely has to help. Right. Oh, I'm a hundred percent sure. So now that they have the McStay family bodies, they don't know what happened to them. Revisiting clues from the initial investigation, detectives circle back to the last person they believe had contact with Joseph the day the family vanished. His business associate, Charles Chase Merritt.

[00:28:32] They also went back to the DNA evidence from the Isuzu trooper and discovered that DNA found on the steering wheel was that of Merritt's. The red flags are going up all over the place now because they also went back to footage of Merritt when he was first interviewed in 2010. While he did pass a polygraph test, they noted that during the course of the interview, he used past tense words such as stating that Joseph was my best friend. Yeah. You think that's really a red flag? You mean the past tense? Mm hmm.

[00:29:03] Mm hmm. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, like, look, this is happening the week they're disappearing. Right. If Joseph's are interviewing me about you, I wouldn't be like, Elena was my best friend. I'd be like, if Elena's one of my best friends, like it would be very much like in the moment. Present. Present. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I could see it being a red flag or I could see it being reading into things in retrospect. In retrospect. Yeah. Yep.

[00:29:31] So as they piece the clues together, they began to outline a motive. They uncovered that Merritt was in financial crisis because of a gambling problem. He owed Joseph McStay over $42,000 and is believed that Joseph's patient was wearing thin and he had began to pressure Merritt to pay him back the debt he owed. Investigators theorize that Merritt killed the family in the home on Avocado Lane by beating them all to death and then drove their bodies to the Mojave Desert where he buried them. That doesn't make sense to me. That doesn't make sense to me.

[00:29:59] How did he kill them with a sledgehammer in the house and there was no evidence? There's no way. Yeah, there's no way. They would absolutely have seen blood. Yeah. Even with mom and brother bleaching the house, I feel like if they saw some blood, they would have. Well, yeah. And like Michael and mom went through the house first. Yeah. So they would have been like, hey, there's blood over here. Yeah. And then they could have probably gotten a search warrant. A lot quicker. Yeah, for sure. Well, unless your theory.

[00:30:28] But yeah, unless Michael and him are in on it together, I guess. But I don't know. Yeah. Okay. So further, they believe that he drove the family's car to San Ysidro. And it was Merritt who used Summer's computer to conduct the Internet searches for Mexico and Spanish. They believe that both of these acts were done to throw the investigators off. I mean, from a timing perspective, when, I mean, isn't there some day timestamps of when the searches were going on? Oh, I don't know.

[00:30:57] Like, I mean, don't you think they would know when a computer expert would know when this was looked up? But like, so far, it just seems suspicious, right? The only actual evidence they have of anything is the DNA in the car. Mm-hmm. Right. And like, that doesn't seem super weird to me. Right. Yeah, agree. So on November 5th, 2014, Charles Merritt was arrested for the murders of Joseph, Summer, Gianni, and Joseph Jr.

[00:31:28] Originally representing himself because he didn't have the funds for an attorney, a team of lawyers agreed to be his representation. And they get this. They wanted to film a documentary about the case and agreed that they would get 75% of any profits from the documentary in any subsequent book deals. I feel like that has to be a conflict of interest. It feels really dirty. Yeah. It feels really gross. Yeah. I saw one of the attorneys interviewed and he was like, he had this like smug little look on his face.

[00:31:54] And he said, I can't disclose our financial relationship. That's attorney, client, you know, blah, blah, blah. But somewhere else it was, I saw the 75%. That's yuck. It's yuck. I agree. During the 50 day trial, more damning information came out about Charles. Prosecutors alleged that Merritt wrote checks totaling $21,000 on Joseph's business accounts days after the family went missing.

[00:32:19] Again, something that probably would have been caught if investigators initially had been able to go back and look at the bank accounts. They further alleged that he went on a gambling spree at nearby casinos and lost thousands. Now I will say, he did say that he was just trying to keep the business afloat. Like he was just trying to. Yeah.

[00:32:37] Well, and you may get to this, but there was another person that was like writing checks on the business who was involved in the business. He is still incarcerated and maintains his innocence.

[00:33:00] And I have to say, I think together we watched six or seven pseudo documentaries on the trial and it doesn't seem like it was an open and shut case to any of us really. His daughter, his daughter also believes that he was wrongly convicted and that she, and she went into forensics because of that. There were several efforts to prove Merritt innocent, despite the fact there have been no movement towards a retrial.

[00:33:21] I mean, there can be, there can be two things true that he had a gambling problem and was stealing some money and borrowing some money and that he was innocent. I mean, like it doesn't, it doesn't have to be, you know, that there is, you know, cause that was causality, you know, between that. Yeah. And that's clever, Mel. But there's more to the story.

[00:33:44] There's lots of other potential suspects and other theories have emerged, including Summer McStay's ex-boyfriend, Vic Johansson. Summer was actually still involved with him when she met Joseph. Vic lived close by and just months earlier on Summer's birthday, he sent her an email saying that he would quote, love her forever. He had a history of violence, but he pled, he pled no contest to a misdemeanor charge after threatening to kill his 12 year old neighbor. There was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and he was kind of a big guy.

[00:34:12] He was a former Marine. I mean, not saying anything, but just, you know. He had an intimidating presence. Yes. Let's, let's say that. Yeah. There was also Joseph's ex-wife's new husband, Michael McFadden, who threatened to quote, muzzle Summer and beat up Joseph. Okay. I didn't know that Joseph had been married before. Yeah. To Heather. Oh, okay. And they had a son together. Okay. Oh, okay. Also not Joseph Jr. Yeah.

[00:34:42] So Joseph's third son is Joseph Jr. Yes. Some say that Summer was controlling when it came to Joseph's relationship with his son from the previous relationship. And this caused trouble between the two families. And then there's someone, as Heather mentioned, by the name of Dan Cavanaugh. He ran the company's internet sales website. He figured out the algorithm so that when people Googled waterfalls, Joseph's company would come up.

[00:35:09] He claimed in a scene in an interview that he and Joseph were equal partners who started the company together. But family and friends say that was more, he was more of an employee. And upon further investigation by detectives, it was discovered that he had taken money from the business after the disappearance. And one question about this, he claimed that he used the money in an attempt to keep the company going after the sudden disappearance. He went on to sell the company for $20,000. I have so many questions about how he legally sold it.

[00:35:37] But yeah, and also $20,000 seems like a little bit low. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Ultimately, though, all of these people had alibis that checked out. There are a few other theories that I was a little wary about bringing up, but we've discussed it. There was the, you know, there's a theory that the brother and the mom were involved. And I think that the bleach thing was, to me, that's the most, I don't want to use incriminating, but suspicious. Suspicious. Suspicious to me.

[00:36:04] I mean, one of the things that they had also said was that there were some tire tracks near where the bodies had been buried, which to me, I'm like, three years later? I mean, even in the desert, are you really maintaining? I mean, this wasn't, apparently it was really near a highway. So people would go off-roading like this motorcyclist who found kind of the bodies that, he had found them because some animals had got up some of the parts of the bodies.

[00:36:32] But they were saying that the tire tracks matched Merritt's tires. But, I mean, it was a popular type of tire. And it's three years later. Exactly. I feel like that's a reach. Because they were also like, well, Joseph's brother also has the same type of truck, too. Interesting. So there was the bleach, clean the house thing. Then the brother took possession of Joseph's laptop.

[00:36:58] But, you know, there were some other odd things that came out about the family that was probably worth mentioning. First, Joseph's mom discovered that Summer was 10 years older than she reported to be. So she was 43, but she was telling people she was 33? So that's weird. Yeah. That's super weird. Yeah. She also had changed her name several times over the years, which begs the question, between the age change and name change, was she running from someone? Okay. And so we were pouring our cocktails earlier and discussing this story with my husband.

[00:37:28] And he was like, this sounds like a mob hit. And, like, did she have a past that came back to haunt her? Yeah, I don't know. She had, like, six aliases. Yeah. And, like, I think her original name was, like, Virginia Lisa, like a Hispanic last name. And then she would change her name all the time.

[00:37:52] She started taking her stepfather's last name, but she was never – I mean, it was never official. Like, she was just writing it down in documents, which to me is very weird. And apparently the summer had only just recently kind of clicked as a name change. So some of the articles I read were, like, the detectives just thought she was an eccentric person. I'm like, that's kind of a – That's the bigger red flag to me than DNA in the car and –

[00:38:21] It's, you know, all these name changes, the age thing. Yeah. It's just weird. Yeah. Yeah. And let's face it, girls, once you get to 40, you cannot really claim to be 30 anymore. It's – It sucks. It's hard. It's super hard. Yeah. Yeah. It just – How is she hiding her reading glasses and, like, her hot flashes and all the things? Oh, okay. Okay. Just saying. Melanie's like, I feel attacked. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, jeez.

[00:38:51] No, it just – it's odd. I mean, she obviously had had babies and been at the hospital. Like, I don't know. That's just weird. Yeah, totally. But then there's also this theory. That's a crazy theory. That Summer or someone was poisoning Joseph. He had become ill right before the disappearance and had even mentioned to Chase, who, let's be clear, is probably not the most reliable narrator of the story that he was concerned. Summer was poisoning him. He had also been looking for a family counselor.

[00:39:19] So while it's possible that things in the family were not as rosy as they seemed, which that's always the case, yeah. It's hard to come up with a reason that any of these would have led to them disappearing and being murdered. I noticed one of the searches that they had found in the computer that day, or at least the day that they think they went missing, was looking for homeopathic anger medicine.

[00:39:51] Oh. But I mean, it makes me worry about like, what if somebody was to go look at my phone or my computer for like research thing? Because I mean, we would have a lot of murder. I think those are really scary stuff. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, like there's a lot of, we're watching a TV show or a movie or something. And then that sparks a, well, what is the truth about, you know, like, so I would hate for someone to think that everything I search is like in earnest. There's a lot of random things that we look at.

[00:40:21] I think everyone should consider this, our public disclosure, that there will be weird things on our computer searches. Yes. If anything should happen to us. So if any of us disappear, do not think that us looking at poisoning is necessarily trying to poison someone. So do y'all want to know what happened with the house? Absolutely. Okay. Yes. In 2011, with no one paying the bills, the home went into foreclosure. Surprise, surprise. Surprise. Yeah. In 2012, the house was resold to a new owner. Those owners still own the home and are super private and there are no public record showing

[00:40:50] who owns it or how much they paid for it. That just makes me think of something. If they were, if people were making sure that the business was still running, why didn't they pay their mortgage? I had the same thought. It sounds like the business accounts got drained pretty quickly. So, I mean, how long can you keep paying a mortgage without money coming in? Yeah. They probably could for a little while. Right. And I think they probably had more of a vested interest in paying some of the business stuff

[00:41:20] because, you know, there's questions if it was an employee or a part owner, but in whatever way, if they wanted to make any money. Mm-hmm. Okay. So, you mentioned that the current homeowner, homeowners who bought it in 2012 from foreclosure, but there's no public record showing how much they paid for it. And that, I guess in Texas, I'm used to looking at, well, like, you know, you can look at somebody's house and you can see, you know, how much they paid for it.

[00:41:50] Is that not always the case? Or maybe I just assume that's to be normal. Well, technically you can't, unless you have a realtor looking it up for you in Texas, you can't see because Texas is a non-disclosure state. So, we do not disclose sales prices to the public. Oh. It's just an MLS. Yeah. But most of the time, if you want to know, you like text us and be like, hey, what did that sell for? It's true. Okay. But you can't look it up in California?

[00:42:15] I don't know if you can in California or not, but if this was a foreclosure, and remember they were in the middle of a remodel, my guess is these people paid cash for this house because finding a lender that will lend on a house that's not finished is hard, right? They want to protect their investments. So, giving you money or lending you money for a house that might not have floors or has some stuff going on is more of a challenge. And I assume it's similar in California.

[00:42:45] In Texas, the only thing you can see is how much the mortgage was for because that gets filed in public record. So, when you're looking things up on like Zillow or Redfin or some of those, they're using an algorithm to tell you what they think the sold price was based on how many people are doing 20% down, how many people are doing 10% down. Like, they're doing some financial math to figure out what we think the sold price was. So, it's never exactly.

[00:43:14] So, it's more of an approximation of what it is. Oh, okay. Well, that's good to know. Yeah. So, hire a realtor. For sure. Yes. Yes. So, would you, what do y'all think? Would you live there? Would you list it? I mean, I don't think the crime occurred there. Yeah. What do you think, Mel? I don't think the crime occurred there.

[00:43:40] I mean, some of the things that they had said that we didn't go into, like in the car where some of the kids traveled, like some new toys, like, you know, like road trips. Did you ever do that? Like, I would go, like, get some road trip toys. I remember once when we flew to Hawaii, I had gotten all, like, and Cole was really young this time. I got him a whole bunch of little toys and I wrapped each one of them up, like new, you know, Legos, new car, matchbox cars.

[00:44:09] And so, every hour of this, you know, like 10-hour flight, he got to open up one little small thing. How cute is that? So, what I read was... As long as he was good. Well, yes. That's how we, yeah. That's how we did it. Yes. If you're good for the next hour, you can open your next toy. Yes. And so, apparently, like, they had some, they were known to have, like, little, like, travel toys and things, and that they had found that in the car as well. So, I don't know.

[00:44:34] It just feels like they either went in the car willingly or that they, even if it was unwilling, that they were able to take a few things with them for, like, the kids' toys and stuff that were in the car. So, I don't think the crime, long way of saying I don't think the crime occurred there. And I'm not sure how much of a renovation this was. Was this more of a cosmetic painting? Because I know they were supposed to meet with a friend to do painting. Or was it, like, you know, like, substantial renovation?

[00:45:04] Yeah. I think I'd live there and list it. What about you? Plus, it's, like, San Diego adjacent. Yeah. I think I would definitely list it. I think I would live there, too. I also don't think that the crime occurred there. I think something funny happened there. Like, something happened. I do think they must have gone willingly. Like, they trusted the person they went with because of the condition of the house. I feel like that's the situation. But I would list it. This sort of gives me D.C. mansion murder vibes.

[00:45:32] That, like, maybe somebody came in and tied somebody up. Or, I don't know. Like, I think it's hard to make two grown adults do something. If there's only one person. Maybe there's multiple people. But, like, you would almost have to tie somebody up or restrain somebody to make two grown adults leave. I agree. With their kids. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:45:58] I feel like with kids, you would do anything possible to try and get away with it. And, you know, if there was a gun involved, well, why wouldn't they have been shot? Why would a sledgehammer have been, like, how they were killed? Like, but then yet at the same time, like, threatening somebody with a sledgehammer to leave their house and get in a car. Especially when they're in their house. And, I don't know. Like, at least I'm close to a kitchen knives drawer or something.

[00:46:28] I don't know. It just seems odd. Well, and just remember, like, statistically, your chances of survival, if you leave in a car with somebody, go down drastically. It's much better to fight in the moment than to leave and go to a separate location. Right. That's my PSA for the day. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like there was a, I don't know. The more we talk about this, and I don't know it, the depths that you two ladies do, the more I think that maybe it was the next morning.

[00:46:56] Maybe, like, you know, Joseph had called Chase and left him, and Chase didn't answer that night. Maybe Chase or somebody else came the next morning. Maybe that car trip wasn't seen on record. Or maybe there was a let's go meet. I don't know. I don't know what I don't know about the situation. But it just seems. Well, nothing makes sense.

[00:47:26] Yeah. I think we all sort of agree that this is not an open and shut case for the person that's behind bars. I agree. It doesn't sound like an open and shut case for anybody. But also, like, there was so little investigation in the moments that matter. Yes. That it's hard to know what you missed that could have been helpful. I don't think this case is solved. I'm going to put it that way. I 100% agree. I'm open to the fact that it was Chase. But I want to know, like, how did that occur?

[00:47:55] Because it just so, you know, so, so let's say, okay, the car, the Azizi trooper was put in Mexico or on the border on the border. Okay. So, then he no longer has that car. And so, how does, like, you know, like, you know, like, he would need to almost have somebody with him to be driving a second vehicle.

[00:48:21] Like, like, how, you know, like, if you're threatening somebody, then you need to be in the car with them. But then how do you get away from where you've murdered them in the desert? I mean, like, at a minimum, there had to have been a second person. Logistically, from where the car was found to where they, the bodies were found, I think was, like, not close. No, not close at all. Yeah. There was a pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. And the car was found in, like, a Dollar General parking lot or something.

[00:48:49] So, presumably, if they had acted faster, there might have still been video of who parked it. And they don't know how long the car had been there. Like, they. Well, I think it was impounded after, what, four days? Yeah. Probably the property management. But they don't necessarily know, like, they don't have, like, when it was exactly left there. Well, no. No. They don't know that. I mean, I just feel like if it was Chase, there had to have been an accomplice to help with the driving. I like your theory that something happened the next day.

[00:49:19] That makes more sense. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Well, this was really interesting, Elena. I do not remember this story. I was in the throes of also having a newborn. And I apologize for our video camera, or people watching this via YouTube. Heather's camera went out. I'm sorry. But. We're working on that. One small step forward, a half a step back. Yeah. Every week, right? But no, thank you for this. This was a really good show.

[00:49:48] And I would say to you guys, like, thanks for joining us today. If you love the podcast, please go leave us a five-star review. It totally makes our day, and it helps us so much. Yes. We spend a ton of our free time on putting together episodes and stories that we think that you'll find interesting, and we'd love to hear from you. And, you know, like we said before, if you really love the show, you can support us by buying us a cup of coffee or ingredients for a screwdriver. Yeah. Or a glass of wine. A glass of wine, yeah.

[00:50:15] But a link to our Buy Me a Coffee page is on our website and socials. Yeah, so go like, subscribe, tell your friends, and we'll see you all next week. Bye. Bye. Hey, y'all. Thanks for listening and being a part of our Crime Estate family. If you're curious about today's featured Crime Estate, you can find additional photos and details from today's episode online at CrimeEstate.com or on Facebook and Instagram by following at CrimeEstatePodcast. Have a Crime Estate we should cover? Let us know.

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